Thread: Mzzkc's Comprehensive WILD Guide

Thanks! I had not considered that "verbal" anchors could be killing my WILDs by preventing getting close enough to sleep. And I *keep forgetting* the lotus visualization...must continue it.

Yeah I'm getting *very* familiar with my falling asleep patterns. I experience all the ones you list.

What's 100% reliable as I enter the first stages of falling asleep is an involuntary/jerky/fast/long inhale. I'm usually still quite alert at this stage but I know this means I'm progressing. I experience this usually several times per night if I notice wakings.

My very common late stage (most of the time I'm unconscious before this occurs and so don't notice it) sign is all-body buzzing/vibrations. Sometimes I'll get "wave on the ocean" or rocking sensations, and very rarely I'll get "floating arms" (only a few times). If I'm on my back (rare) I've gotten lead-blanket jerky/hard breathing but also only a few times.

You're basically there! Just switch to lotus visualisation and maintain state once you reach that lead blanket stage.

Originally Posted by Ctharlhie

You're basically there! Just switch to lotus visualisation and maintain state once you reach that lead blanket stage.

I don't very often reach that stage unfortunately. But I need to put more effort on WILD attempts. Tried last night after WBTB with 300mg Alpha-GPC at 5 hrs but couldn't fall asleep: wife also with insomnia was just too noisy and making too many movements. I was on the edge of sleep but jerked back about 4 times. So I gave up and got up after 3 hrs of trying. I did sleep again after breakfast for about an hour or so and had vivid but short and strange dreams, which were at least not boring. Very "dream-like" in fact. Lots of close-up examinations of strange objects.

I tried the lotus visualization and encountered a strange difficulty. I somehow find it hard to visualize the lotus in my throat. I find my physical eyes keep trying to "look down" into my throat, and of course I can't see down that far and so I "can't see" the lotus there. It's a bizarre sort of issue. I suppose I should spend a bit more time visualizing it "in front of my eyes" before trying to "move it" to my throat.

I tried visualizing my body from the outside, seeing the lotus there in my throat, I'm not sure thought that's the right way to do it. Any suggestions?

I've started to find that a more effective way of thinking about WILD (for me), is to actually drop the notion of an anchor altogether and actually allow myself to lose consciousness completely. What tends to happen is that the effort to WILD before losing consciousness actually makes it quite likely that I will become lucid in the following dream, even if that lucidity is *technically* now a DILD.

So it goes:

1. Do usual WILD attempt up until the point where I'm starting to black out
2. Lose consciousness completely
3. ????
4. Guaranteed "DILD" when dream starts

It's a very odd thing, because it's technically a DILD, but it relies heavily on the application of WILD technique (and requires absolutely NO reality checking at all). Another interesting thing is that this method takes on some of the characteristic tendencies of strictly DILD lucids, namely: they're usually not 100% lucid, I tend to choose to follow a free flowing plot, even though I'm lucid, and being less than 100% lucid means they're more stable. This goes back to the inverse relationship between lucidity and stability that any experienced dreamer knows all too well.

EDIT: I realize this is not a new idea.

^^it's still good to point out; I find I can do this much more easily late morning (after 7 hrs sleep). Before that, not likely. But if you can't lucidly cross the barrier, "giving up" is sometimes a great option.

^^ Especially if giving up results in a DILD.

I have a feeling that many of our WILD's go this brief loss of consciousness route; not a bad thing at all, BTW.

Originally Posted by ThreeCat

^^it's still good to point out; I find I can do this much more easily late morning (after 7 hrs sleep). Before that, not likely. But if you can't lucidly cross the barrier, "giving up" is sometimes a great option.

Same here. Also, WBTB is something that continues to astonish me in how effective it is.

I've also found that melatonin (3+ mg) helps me WILD/DEILD--I think it has to do with the shortened NREM period due to REM rebound. Something to try, at any rate.

Gais, you know this thread is like 4 years old, yeah?

^^ Your point?

Has the information changed? Are you no longer monitoring? Are people no longer interested in WILD?

I personally think that some threads deserve to be kept alive; this is one of them.

^^ Exactly. The OP is active, so should not be a problem.

Originally Posted by Mzzkc

Gais, you know this thread is like 4 years old, yeah?

This thread is one of the good ones. If this one isn't kept active, then the garbage put out there by Jeff777 and his ilk, will be the ones that people gravitate towards.

I was being purposefully pedantic for comedic effect, gosh.

Next time I'll remember the "/s".

Edit: sometimes I worry we all forget to have a little fun now and again.

^^ You're welcome.

Originally Posted by Mzzkc

Gais, you know this thread is like 4 years old, yeah?

An oldie but a goodie

Originally Posted by FryingMan

I don't very often reach that stage unfortunately. But I need to put more effort on WILD attempts. Tried last night after WBTB with 300mg Alpha-GPC at 5 hrs but couldn't fall asleep: wife also with insomnia was just too noisy and making too many movements. I was on the edge of sleep but jerked back about 4 times. So I gave up and got up after 3 hrs of trying. I did sleep again after breakfast for about an hour or so and had vivid but short and strange dreams, which were at least not boring. Very "dream-like" in fact. Lots of close-up examinations of strange objects.

I tried the lotus visualization and encountered a strange difficulty. I somehow find it hard to visualize the lotus in my throat. I find my physical eyes keep trying to "look down" into my throat, and of course I can't see down that far and so I "can't see" the lotus there. It's a bizarre sort of issue. I suppose I should spend a bit more time visualizing it "in front of my eyes" before trying to "move it" to my throat.

I tried visualizing my body from the outside, seeing the lotus there in my throat, I'm not sure thought that's the right way to do it. Any suggestions?

If you're struggling with lotus visualisation, try just a red dot or "A" first: take your finger and push firmly but lightly into the slight hollow where your throat meets your collar bone. Where you feel that pressure, imagine a red lotus flower. Repeat without the help of touch.

Holy.Fucking.Shit. You sir, are a fucking genius. After reading this thread (as well as the other two included) a lightbulb finally went off. Despite what people have said, I have been trying to WILD with no prior sleep whatsoever, with me of course thinking "oh yeah, I don't mind. I can try to wait out that 30-60-90 minutes. Big fucking deal right?" WRONG. I finally realized that this will NEVER work. I have honestly no fucking clue why this never clicked in my head. Thank you, I am going to try this tonight.

Originally Posted by dragster69

I have honestly no fucking clue why this never clicked in my head.

Maybe it's because there are lots of pedants on sites like these who will never, ever admit that there are correct ways of doing things. /rant

Originally Posted by cmind

Maybe it's because there are lots of pedants on sites like these who will never, ever admit that there are correct ways of doing things. /rant

!!?? Can you point out where anybody on DV recommends (especially to newbies) to do WILD attempts on no prior sleep!?

Originally Posted by FryingMan

!!?? Can you point out where anybody on DV recommends (especially to newbies) to do WILD attempts on no prior sleep!?

No, they're too cowardly to do that. Instead, they shout down anyone who says that WILDing with no prior sleep is a bad idea and should not be attempted by beginners because it's hard enough already.

I don't see any examples of this. It is certainly not widespread. Can you provide quotes? You're making it out to be an endemic and I have never, not once that I recall, seen people being shouted down for recommending not doing WILDs on no prior sleep.

It's not been a thing recently, but search "wild prior sleep" and go through some of those threads if you'd like examples of what cmind is talking about.

Kay. Back into the shadows nao...

Originally Posted by FryingMan

I don't see any examples of this. It is certainly not widespread. Can you provide quotes? You're making it out to be an endemic and I have never, not once that I recall, seen people being shouted down for recommending not doing WILDs on no prior sleep.

I've personally been on the receiving end of this...

OK, well, there certainly are people with all sort of points of view. But if you take something like Sageous's WILD class, and this tread, you'll get good solid advice. The majority of all WILD advice on DV includes prior sleep, at least in my time here on DV (2+ years) so I was surprised to see this claim.