Thread: How do YOU know you aren't dreaming right now?

Hm. Interesting thought. I would think it's the dreamer and the conscious dream. Both one; connected by a thread, but so thin a thread as to create the illusion of separateness.

Originally Posted by Voldmer

If all is one, then we are both the dreamer, the dream, and the dreaming. In other words, these three are separate perspectives of the same reality. We should be able to choose our vantage point freely. In reality, I at least find that rather difficult ... especially when being awake .

That's exactly it, apparently anyway.

Science still doesn't have an exact theory on what consciousness is, some say it's just an electrical pattern in the brain but others will say our brain acts a receiver and that consciousness is everywhere - that our brains pick up on the signal like a radio antenna. The latter theory is becoming more popularised and more likely according to latest research discoveries. With this in mind, I think it would be possible to see from a different vantage point because if consciousness is everywhere and your body is merely just picking up on it from a field, then all that's required is to stop believing that consciousness belongs to you, or is individual to you and associating it as confined to your body. You would be trying to recognize the consciousness going on in the background existing everywhere and trying to merge with it, which would be similar to experiencing ego death. Most people feel their conscious mind as existing somewhere centered in their head usually just behind the eyes, but does it really originate or reside there? if you meditate on this and really try to discover the source of your conscious thought and awareness you will have a lot of trouble trying to track its origin.

If the hermetic principle of correspondence is true (as above so below, as below so above, as within so without, as without so within) then literally you and your physical body is all that exists, everything outside yourself existing in 'reality' is a reflection of what's happening inside you. Science even points at this when they discover that the image you see of reality is entirely constructed within your brain. The words you are reading right now is literally a visual representation going on inside your head and not a true reflection of reality. It's almost like you never really see out your eyes at all, your senses just perceive signals and send them to the brain where it creates a seemingly virtual world that you believe to be reality, or at least an accurate perception of reality. Your physical body is something you feel but also perceive with your eyes, these are all sensory input again. So it goes back to the same thing that all is one, all is self, all is mind, etc.

Or you know, we could just be stuck inside a simulation or worse.... a brain in vat.

On the subject of the scientific investigation of consciousness, I'm particularly interested in the split brain experiment. As I understand it, you can cut the connection between the two hemispheres of the brain, and by doing so, the person who would have before reported to have one consciousness, now has two separate consciousness, neither aware of a discontinuity at the moment of splitting. Theoretically, you could appropriately reconnect those hemispheres and the subject would not feel any discontinuity going from two consciousness to one. Wanting to make even further conjectures, I'd imagine that connecting two people's brains into one functioning neural network would lead to the experience of one consciousness for the two bodies.

As I understand the investigation, there might be as many consciousness as there are units of networks in the brain. Some parts of the brain might not be aware of what other parts of the brain are aware of. Some we would consider without consciousness, subconscious. But others would be considered conscious such as in the example of split personality.

What this makes me think is that consciousness is comparable to electricity... as in, it's everywhere, it just needs a closed circuit for it to be set into motion. Some circuits are simple, some may be complex, but only just a circuit/network is required. In this sense, I see all of consciousness as one element of the world. The experience that we (the consciousnesses) are all separate is a natural consequence of the separation of the circuits. If we were connected, we would be one, because after all, we are one. The only separation is our perspective, our point of view from the closed network that has set us into awareness.

That's what I vibe with at the moment.

Originally Posted by Occipitalred

I'd imagine that connecting two people's brains into one functioning neural network would lead to the experience of one consciousness for the two bodies.

Great thought!! I am going to contemplate that one!

Originally Posted by Occipitalred

What this makes me think is that consciousness is comparable to electricity... as in, it's everywhere, it just needs a closed circuit for it to be set into motion. Some circuits are simple, some may be complex, but only just a circuit/network is required. In this sense, I see all of consciousness as one element of the world. The experience that we (the consciousnesses) are all separate is a natural consequence of the separation of the circuits. If we were connected, we would be one, because after all, we are one. The only separation is our perspective, our point of view from the closed network that has set us into awareness.

That's what I vibe with at the moment.

That is actually really smart and makes sense, did you come up with that or hear it somewhere else? I haven't really thought too much about why we are separate or feel separate besides the obvious physical reasons. I've always perceived reality to be an illusion, that something is not quite right about it but can never put my finger on what that is exactly, or why I feel this way. I will have to meditate on this, and I wonder if having an open or closed mind impacts the circuit in any way.

Originally Posted by Eonnn

That is actually really smart and makes sense, did you come up with that or hear it somewhere else? I haven't really thought too much about why we are separate or feel separate besides the obvious physical reasons. I've always perceived reality to be an illusion, that something is not quite right about it but can never put my finger on what that is exactly, or why I feel this way. I will have to meditate on this, and I wonder if having an open or closed mind impacts the circuit in any way.

Split brain experiments were a common topic brought up in my university courses. It is part of the basics of neuroscience and I did do my Master's in that field (though nothing related to the split brain). We learn this to better understand the workings of the mind, but interestingly, (though not inappropriately), professors only discussed the neurological implications but not the spiritual ones.

So, I actually found these ideas over the summer in neuroscientist Sam Harris' book: Waking up: a guide to spirituality without religion. There's a few reasons why I disagree with some of his most popular ideas but I really loved this section. I was disappointed there was not more of it. I'm really interested in finding out if more people have written or spoken about this but it seems not many must have. He kind of took a further step from my university courses and discussed the spiritual conclusions. But I think there's so much more to say than what he discussed. I have been meditating over this since.

I also want to check his references because sometimes popular interpretations of scientific research are way off. For example, it's now accessible to find why the popular interpretation of quantum theory and it's spiritual conclusions are not aligned with the experts' discussions. So, I do want to check that. If Harris' references are in good faith, then it would seem science has some interesting evidence that consciousness is 1. divisible and 2. overlapping! Quite a departure from our traditional idea of the soul as an indivisible unit of consciousness.

To OP: Sure, we are dreaming right now, just some are more aware of this and some less. Lucidity is still achievable on this level, but definitely harder than in our dreams, but it come with a lot of pluses.

Originally Posted by Eonnn

Waking reality is very much like being in a dream, it's just not as fluid or malleable. You can shape it however you want it just takes much longer to manifest and will depend on how lucid you are. And by lucid, I mean how consciously aware you are of your own power and ability, and how aware you are about the truth of reality. A good place to start is the first hermetic principle (all is mind) but even great scientists like Einstein and Tesla say everything is energy, your physical body, your emotions and thoughts, and everything in reality all arise out of energy. Think about it, it takes energy to produce a thought or anything at all so it makes sense. But where do you think energy comes from? and what exists outside of reality? outside of time and space? there is a one word answer for all of it. But here's the real kick, when you dive right into it all to learn this truth somewhere along the way you discover that it is all you, that you are the God you seek. This is why all the great mystics say "all is self" or "all is one" because God is all that exists, and you are God.

I like your post and pretty much can say that I already reached that level of lucidity, but controlling this world is a little bit more harder than the world in your dream. I already was able to manifest thing or two or more, but because there are more variables here than in our dreams, unintended manifestations happens. I just need a little more time to adjust myself to the rules of positive manifestation.

Put it this way, you can either be dreaming, the dreamer, or the dream itself. Which would you rather be? the dream itself is just that, the underlying structure and not actively participating, dreaming you are unaware and just going along with the story. being a dreamer you are aware and can participate and make changes. I don't know about you but I would rather be the dreamer than just dreaming or the dream itself.

I actually want to be both, the dreamer and the dream or maybe I'm already.

Originally Posted by MoonageDaydream

I really like your post. You're so spot on. I would like to add one thing to it (and it's completely my opinion). The dream itself is actively participating. It is conscious, just as we are.

Originally Posted by Eonnn

Hey MoonageDaydream, glad you enjoyed it - can be difficult summing up lifetime of esoteric research into 1 paragraph haha =)

I was considering altering that part because you are right, it is conscious and aware but to a different level than we are as dreamers. I imagine it's like practicing mindfulness where you become a passive non-judgmental observer, it would be similar to this.

The dream has a consciousness and awareness, I know because I already experienced it. You are right, you just become an observer, but definitely not passive, you can construct and deconstruct the dream on the go and in any time you can join the dream itself as a Dreamer, I'm doing that by entering in any dream body on the scene or create one from the scratch. While I'm the Dream itself I can't directly interact with the dream personas and they also cannot perceive me. I think becoming the Dream itself is higher form of lucidity than just the Dreamer and even higher is to become the both in the same time. Here I'm going to quote my dream here: (this dream is the very reason I registered here)

Hi,
a month ago I have a dream that finally led me to a breakthrough into my lucid exploration, as a result of which I had several realizations I wanted to share. The dream was short but very powerful.

Began as a non-lucid dream, I was chased by monsters through the floors of something like a hotel when I reached the underground spa floor, out of nowhere a dream character grabbed me and threw me into the pool, I tried to get out but he used water manipulation to keep me inside. In times like this I always become semi-lucid and start using lucid powers, this time was no different, I tried to counter him with my own water manipulation, but he was very strong, he was drowning me in the pool, I was holding my breath but I was on my limit, suddenly a thought popped in my mind, why I must struggle, why I need to fight back, why I need to do anything at all, just let go. I open my mouth and let the water to run through my body, I (my dream body) drowned and sank to the bottom of the pool. In that moment of absolutely steadiness my mind became calm as the water surface, my nonbody/bodiless self popped from my dream body leading me to lucidity, but this time was different, I was my nonbody and my dream body at the same time. My dream body became light as the air and start to float up, coming out of the water, while I (my nonbody) was floating around me. The DC was wondering how I'm still alive, after I drowned up. I was always curious about the the nature of DC's, having many theories about their existence and why they are getting irritated for calling them not real.

First realization) DC's can't see or sense my floating nonbody!

I open my dream body eyes, realising that I have two viewpoints, one perspective from my dream body and one from my nonbody, giving me a total 360 degree of vision, ultimately reaching 100 Focus. My mind was moving so peacefuly and focused like never before, like one second in this state was like a hour of deep thinking in wake world. The DC was cursing me and wanted to fight with me.

Second realisation) All DC's are created by the unconscious mind with limited fake memories only to contain the dreamer to the dream scenario, they doesn't know they are not real because, they have memories of being real and there are certain word triggers, programmatically integrated in their mind by the unconscious mind. Words like "not real" and "DC", which trigger change in behaviour for the purpose of putting the dreamer into new dream scenario.

Upon realising this I just said "begone" and all DC's and dream monsters vanish in thin air, like they never existed in first place. I observed my own state, which led me to a new realization.

Third realisation)I'm my dream body and nonbody, and I'm not.

Originally Posted by michael79

The dream has a consciousness and awareness, I know because I already experienced it. You are right, you just become an observer, but definitely not passive, you can construct and deconstruct the dream on the go and in any time you can join the dream itself as a Dreamer, I'm doing that by entering in any dream body on the scene or create one from the scratch. While I'm the Dream itself I can't directly interact with the dream personas and they also cannot perceive me. I think becoming the Dream itself is higher form of lucidity than just the Dreamer and even higher is to become the both in the same time. Here I'm going to quote my dream here: (this dream is the very reason I registered here)

Thanks for sharing, I like the thought of being able to construct and deconstruct the dream on the go, I have experienced doing this before but only as a dreamer not the dream itself. Usually, if I'm underwater I just breathe naturally like a natural response and it works every time I never encounter any difficulty with it, however I've heard other people do sometimes. Although the state you described (correct me if I'm wrong) sounded more like 3rd person view, which I wouldn't exactly call the dream itself. 3rd person is common in computer games, another viewpoint is called 'top-down' where you are viewing the layout from above like viewing google maps. There is also lateral or asymmetrical view which is like viewing from the side. Heck, there is even 360 view, 2D view and what I like to call cartoon view (everything looks like anime) all of which I have experienced, yet I never considered any of these view-points to be the dream itself. The closest I've come would be a dream in which I had no physical body, a 360 degree view, from the point of a small sphere (this was my 'body') and could move to any point on the earth (even 2 different points at same time) and be able to hear conversations and see what's happening, along with hearing their self-talk and feeling their emotions. At the same time, I wasn't judging what was happening just observing it all, everything was already manifested and I didn't seem to want to change anything from that perspective, just observe. There was also no ability to manipulate time or construct/deconstruct/change the environment.

Perhaps, we are getting it wrong then? maybe from that sort of perspective, there is nothing to do other than observe and it's at the level of the dreamer where changes can be made.

Originally Posted by Eonnn

Heck, there is even 360 view, 2D view and what I like to call cartoon view (everything looks like anime) all of which I have experienced,.

Oh Man, cartoon dreams are bad ass! I love being in my own cartoon, even just watching is great. I was Garfield the Cat once!

Originally Posted by sivason

Oh Man, cartoon dreams are badass! I love being in my own cartoon, even just watching is great. I was Garfield the Cat once!

Had a dream recently that I had "The Mask" powers. That's awesome, Eonnn! Cartoon are badass! I think even in the movie, Stanly said that when he puts the mask on, he can be anything. But, do it, where it doesn't reck your dream life. I guess we can apply that to lucid dreaming in a way.

Haha, yes I rarely have cartoon dreams though because I don't watch much animation. I had strange AP experience once where I floated out of my body and everything looked like my house, flew to the front door but soon as I went outside it all looked like a cartoon but still resembling what the outside world normally looks like. I also dreamt of being a character in runescape running around killing chickens! until I became lucid and took control (away from the gamer?) I was able to see a small chatbox as well. Had other gaming type dreams where I feel an imaginary keyboard (dreamboard?) and can press keys or combinations of keys to do certain things, much like elder scrolls press mouse 1 and lightning shoots out or keyboard R for special ability haha.

Yeah, I had a dream about Krusty the clown, from the Simpsons went back in time and wanted to marry Brigitte Bardot, last night. I have only seen a handful of those shows so I'm not even sure if that was an episode or not.
I did post this, yesterday in what are you watching of Daniel Love. So, Reality Check now!! : https://www.dreamviews.com/entertain...ml#post2239988

Running around shooting chickens on Rune Scape! I have been there! Shot so damn many chickens!

Originally Posted by sivason

Running around shooting chickens on Rune Scape! I have been there! Shot so damn many chickens!

Maybe we need a New cartoon thread? So, we feel free to discuss cartoon rampages?

I can kind of remember what I was doing 10 minutes ago, every thing make sense, and I can't breathe through my nose.

Well, I can count my fingers properly, can't breathe through my nose when it's pinched shut, and I can read text over and over and it doesn't change. So my guess is that I'm awake.