Thread: The ULTIMATE decision..

Hey r2d2651,
choose option #3 - Quit your current life and live like in your dream

I dunno, life is a gift of sort so dont waste it.
I had the chance to stay in such a dream. I was even invited by certain creatures and i was happy there more than in real life but anyway i woke up and stayed on earth so to speak.

Originally Posted by Samael

Seriously, though. In the interest of philosophical integrity (if there is such a thing), we would have to alter the context once again.

In the original question, there are two options: take the money, kill a stranger, and get your memory wiped, or don't.

If your subject takes the money, then you can be assured that they value their own happiness more than the happiness of others.

If, however, your subject does not take the money, you can't be assured of their altruism. The subject may just be motivated by the desire not to have their mind fucked with.

So, the question becomes, how can you alter the context to remove this error?

I don't think you're suppose to take the question so literaly. However, the so called step is essential as part of the "blissful ignornace".

It all comes down to how you value your happiness vs. the hapiness (or lack there of) of a complete stranger were the constarints of society to be lifted.

Yeah life is painful and hard and allthat but there's no way that I'm going to ditch it for some lucid dream. If you choose to live in a lucid dream I garantee you would want to kill yourself after a while.

You know how some games have cheat codes? Like if I'm playing an RPG or w/e and it's really hard so I decide to enter a cheat for unlimited money or health or whatever.
At first it would be awesome because I'm doing stuff I could never do. But soon, as many other gamers have found, the cheated game ceases to be fun. Like killing the boss one shot KO starts getting boring... Things seem pointless because there is no challenge.

The point I'm getting at is that life is like a game. Without the pain/boringness/challenge life becomes awesome at first, but then really gay and pointless. Lucid dream = life without challenge/pain/boringness. So in a lucid dream life lets say that I decide to have sex with Misa Campo, because I can. So I have sex with her and it's awesome. And I do it everyday for a few years, and it's still awesome. But the sad thing is, our minds can get used to anything. So after a while, screwing hot chicks will literally become as mundane as going to bed, or eating breakfast, or going to the washroom.

What makes something pleasurable is the challenge of trying to get it. Reward without challenge ceases to be a reward. So after the pleasure goes out of the lucid dreamlife you will have no choice but to commit lucid suicide, if that is even possible.

Originally Posted by Ashouren

#2 Trip my ass off while high on acid for the whole week.

going with this one. definitely

Originally Posted by Evercy

Yeah life is painful and hard and allthat but there's no way that I'm going to ditch it for some lucid dream. If you choose to live in a lucid dream I garantee you would want to kill yourself after a while.

You know how some games have cheat codes? Like if I'm playing an RPG or w/e and it's really hard so I decide to enter a cheat for unlimited money or health or whatever.
At first it would be awesome because I'm doing stuff I could never do. But soon, as many other gamers have found, the cheated game ceases to be fun. Like killing the boss one shot KO starts getting boring... Things seem pointless because there is no challenge.

The point I'm getting at is that life is like a game. Without the pain/boringness/challenge life becomes awesome at first, but then really gay and pointless. Lucid dream = life without challenge/pain/boringness. So in a lucid dream life lets say that I decide to have sex with Misa Campo, because I can. So I have sex with her and it's awesome. And I do it everyday for a few years, and it's still awesome. But the sad thing is, our minds can get used to anything. So after a while, screwing hot chicks will literally become as mundane as going to bed, or eating breakfast, or going to the washroom.

What makes something pleasurable is the challenge of trying to get it. Reward without challenge ceases to be a reward. So after the pleasure goes out of the lucid dreamlife you will have no choice but to commit lucid suicide, if that is even possible.

-Thats a great analogy ... Oh and I would definitly go with #1

Originally Posted by kflory31

-Thats a great analogy

It's actually pretty poor considering lucids do contain "challenge/pain/boringness," and unlike games there isn't much limitation on what you can do. I'd tear the analogy apart more, but everyone with sufficient LDing experience should be able to pick out the flaws in it. Those that can't really shouldn't be making decisions on whether or not they want to spend the rest of their life in a lucid because, let's face it, they don't have enough first-hand knowledge under their belt to make a well informed decision.

Originally Posted by Mzzkc

It's actually pretty poor considering lucids do contain "challenge/pain/boringness," and unlike games there isn't much limitation on what you can do. I'd tear the analogy apart more, but everyone with sufficient LDing experience should be able to pick out the flaws in it. Those that can't really shouldn't be making decisions on whether or not they want to spend the rest of their life in a lucid because, let's face it, they don't have enough first-hand knowledge under their belt to make a well informed decision.

Well uhm, if I understand what you're saying correctly. And endless, stable lucid dream. You would have plenty of time to get the hang of things without the risk of waking up..

Originally Posted by r2d2651

Well uhm, if I understand what you're saying correctly. And endless, stable lucid dream. You would have plenty of time to get the hang of things without the risk of waking up..

No. This is not what I am saying at all.

No I was responding to what you were saying. After the first sentence is my response.

Originally Posted by Mzzkc

It's actually pretty poor considering lucids do contain "challenge/pain/boringness," and unlike games there isn't much limitation on what you can do. I'd tear the analogy apart more, but everyone with sufficient LDing experience should be able to pick out the flaws in it. Those that can't really shouldn't be making decisions on whether or not they want to spend the rest of their life in a lucid because, let's face it, they don't have enough first-hand knowledge under their belt to make a well informed decision.

I agree, LD's do contain challenge/pain and boringness... when you have 3-7 minute lucids 3 times a week .. I mean the challenge comes in making them last, doing new and creative things, going days without LD's , etc.. Pain and boringness have definitly crept into my lucid dream life.. but if it was one continuous lucid that lasted forever.. it would be a totally different story that nobody on this forum could imagine (as nobody has experienced it.. i dont think) .. I wont go either way here, but I think that some people could totally make it work and constantly be doing amazing things in an everlasting LD, but for some people (lacking creativity) the boringness would set in and the challenge would fade away...... ....and just so you know.. he never mentions there being limitations in LD's

and one more thing.. I have had quite a bit of LDing experience (not a large amount, but a couple years worth of experience) and I totally can see the positive sides in an everlasting LD.. I just wouldnt give up my life for it...

I can see where your coming from and it totally makes sense in some instances, but i don't think you should be so quick to assume your talking to/about a totally inexperienced LD'er off an analogy and one person's reply to that analogy .. (btw im dead tired and a little drunk.. having a hard time gettin my point across .. ) night.

if it weren't for my immediate family, i'd go with #2, so i guess that's #1 for me x).

the last seven days, i'd spend the whole time i had left with my family... i'd be bawling my eyes out. and i'd probably be the same amount of miserable in my dream life XD this is coming from someone moving away for university in a couple of months... XD

Originally Posted by kflory31

I agree, LD's do contain challenge/pain and boringness... when you have 3-7 minute lucids 3 times a week .. I mean the challenge comes in making them last, doing new and creative things, going days without LD's , etc.. Pain and boringness have definitly crept into my lucid dream life..

If you agree, why did you say it was a good analogy, when it clearly isn't?

Originally Posted by kflory31

but if it was one continuous lucid that lasted forever.. it would be a totally different story that nobody on this forum could imagine (as nobody has experienced it.. i dont think)

It'd be like a lucid that lasted forever without the need for stabilization. Which, I'm guessing, is very similar to the more stable hour+ long LDs I've had. It's not very hard for me to imagine these experiences continuing on indefinitely. . .

Originally Posted by kflory31

but for some people (lacking creativity)

I can see how it'd be hard to imagine something like that.

Originally Posted by kflory31

....and just so you know.. he never mentions there being limitations in LD's

He compared LDing and Life to a video game. As anyone who has ever played video games knows, the things a player can do in most games is very limited, which is a huge reason why those cheat codes have such an impact the level of enjoyment the game offers. If there were no limitations on anything, you could use as many cheat codes as you wanted and still have enough variety to keep things fresh and exciting.

Originally Posted by kflory31

and one more thing.. I have had quite a bit of LDing experience (not a large amount, but a couple years worth of experience) and I totally can see the positive sides in an everlasting LD.. I just wouldnt give up my life for it..

To each their own. I personally can't stand many of the idiotic social and societal chores forced upon me daily, but some people enjoy that kind of thing. Heaven knows why.

Originally Posted by kflory31

I can see where your coming from and it totally makes sense in some instances, but i don't think you should be so quick to assume your talking to/about a totally inexperienced LD'er off an analogy and one person's reply to that analogy .. (btw im dead tired and a little drunk.. having a hard time gettin my point across .. ) night.

You are completely right. I shouldn't have assumed all experienced LDers would be able to pull from that experience and logically pick apart that analogy. There are many other factors I should have considered. The fallacy is mine.

Originally Posted by Mzzkc

To each their own. I personally can't stand many of the idiotic social and societal chores forced upon me daily, but some people enjoy that kind of thing. Heaven knows why.

Yeah, I found the analogy lacking as well, but Mzzkc picked it apart before I got to it. Despite the existence of an endless, stable dream, you would still be confined within the limits of your own, very human imagination. The challenge, then, would be to escape the limits of your mind, and to continue stretching the boundaries of the dream. Possibly, this might mean the end of consciousness as you know it - a hypothetical in-dream suicide, if you will.

There's a short story I keep seeing around the internet. A man meets the creator (God), and is told that his consciousness is being preserved to amuse Him. The man replies that he will spend the rest of eternity trying to do something impossible: to destroy God and therefore himself. I think it's a comparable idea. Analogous, even.

Still picking #1.