Thread: WILD - Wake Initiated Lucid Dream

oooh ic. Noted that. I will try DILD method first before WILD. Coz i think DILD is looks easier (maybe). I just curious with WILD , coz i had SP very often when i was kid n teenager. Will try it when i have succeed with DILD. Thx btw

I think that is true and starting with DILD makes good sense. Nothing about WILD causes SP, but if it already was an issue WILD may make you more likely to notice an episode of it. However, you will be conscious and aware to a much higher level, so if you just do not try to move and relax you may even enjoy the experience and not be afraid. Instead of trying to move, just keep your eyes closed and keep watching for a dream to form, keep doing your anchor and so on.

Sorry for kind of digging up this thread, but I'm a beginner when it comes to WILD's and have a question; What exactly is the difference between DEILD and WILD if you set an alarm clock to wake you up?

Thanks.

With WILD you're starting from a fully awake state. With DEILD (which is a sort of "shortcut WILD"), your mind & body are still mostly asleep, and you're just drifting off back into a dream. If after emerging from a dream (whether naturally or due to an alarm) you keep your mind in a very quiet dreamy/drowsy state, just lightly considering the dream you woke from (which is harder to do with an alarm) and allow yourself to drift off back to sleep and manage to enter a new dream lucidly, that's a DEILD. DEILDs usually happen fairly quickly (within seconds potentially, perhaps up to a minute or two). If you're still awake after more than a few minutes the window of opportunity for a DEILD has probably passed, and you're facing the task of returning your body and mind to sleep from a more fully wakened state, which would be termed a WILD.

People sometimes place too much emphasis on the terms ("was this a WILD? A DEILD? A DILD?"): the terms are not really important: understanding the various circumstances and opportunities to enter the dream state is much more important. The terms do help to summarize the differences between the scenarios, though.

Originally Posted by FryingMan

With WILD you're starting from a fully awake state. With DEILD (which is a sort of "shortcut WILD"), your mind & body are still mostly asleep, and you're just drifting off back into a dream. If after emerging from a dream (whether naturally or due to an alarm) you keep your mind in a very quiet dreamy/drowsy state, just lightly considering the dream you woke from (which is harder to do with an alarm) and allow yourself to drift off back to sleep and manage to enter a new dream lucidly, that's a DEILD. DEILDs usually happen fairly quickly (within seconds potentially, perhaps up to a minute or two). If you're still awake after more than a few minutes the window of opportunity for a DEILD has probably passed, and you're facing the task of returning your body and mind to sleep from a more fully wakened state, which would be termed a WILD.

People sometimes place too much emphasis on the terms ("was this a WILD? A DEILD? A DILD?"): the terms are not really important: understanding the various circumstances and opportunities to enter the dream state is much more important. The terms do help to summarize the differences between the scenarios, though.

But WILDs would be possible after being awake longer? So if you set your alarm clock at let's say 5 'o clock and then you wake up and you should first try a DEILD, and if you accidentally move too much, you should go over to "WILDing"?


Also, isn't it true that DILD and WILD are actually types of lucid dreams, and thus in their case the ILD means "Induced Lucid Dream", while DEILD, WBTB (being a non ILD), VILD, MILD and some others are actually techniques, hence their ILD means "Induction of Lucid Dreaming"?

^^ I know you addressed these to FryingMan, and his answer will probably be enough, but here are a couple of thoughts you might consider:

First, I believe that it would be very difficult to impossible to DEILD from an alarm clock; the alarm simply wakes you up too much, and separates you from the dream you were just in. In a sense, using an alarm tends to negate the possibility to DEILD, because it erases the dreamy mindset you must have in order to go immediately back to sleep and return to your dream.

For that matter, in my opinion it is best to avoid using an alarm for WILD as well, also because the alarm can trigger too many of your brain's "wake-up" circuits and thus reduce your chance of maintaining a dreamy state during WBTB.

Also:

isn't it true that DILD and WILD are actually types of lucid dreams, and thus in their case the ILD means "Induced Lucid Dream", while DEILD, WBTB (being a non ILD), VILD, MILD and some others are actually techniques, hence their ILD means "Induction of Lucid Dreaming"?

No, it isn't true; not completely, anyway.

DEILD is actually a form of WILD, and, with DILD, all three are the names given to the two possible transitions to a LD. In other words, they are terms used to describe how your LD started: WILD/DEILD represent the transition from wake to sleep to dream without losing waking-life self-awareness, while DILD represents the transition from non-lucidity to lucidity during the dream. The "I" in all three, BTW, stands for "Initiated," and not "Induced:"

WILD = Wake Initiated Lucid Dream
DEILD = Dream Exit Initiated Lucid dream
DILD = Dream Initiated Lucid Dream

So: yes, they are all types of LD's (or at least how the LD originated), but DEILD is a form of WILD, and none are induced, but rather initiated.

The other major or original "ILD" (from LaBerge's work), MILD, is the only one where the "I" does stand for "Induced:"

MILD = Mnemonically Induced Lucid Dream

And, though it has that "ILD" in it, MILD is a technique, and not transition descriptor.

Finally, as you've already guessed by now, DEILD is not a technique, but the name for the transition itself.

Originally Posted by Sageous

^^ I know you addressed these to FryingMan, and his answer will probably be enough, but here are a couple of thoughts you might consider:

First, I believe that it would be very difficult to impossible to DEILD from an alarm clock; the alarm simply wakes you up too much, and separates you from the dream you were just in. In a sense, using an alarm tends to negate the possibility to DEILD, because it erases the dreamy mindset you must have in order to go immediately back to sleep and return to your dream.

For that matter, in my opinion it is best to avoid using an alarm for WILD as well, also because the alarm can trigger too many of your brain's "wake-up" circuits and thus reduce your chance of maintaining a dreamy state during WBTB.

Also:



No, it isn't true; not completely, anyway.

DEILD is actually a form of WILD, and, with DILD, all three are the names given to the two possible transitions to a LD. In other words, they are terms used to describe how your LD started: WILD/DEILD represent the transition from wake to sleep to dream without losing waking-life self-awareness, while DILD represents the transition from non-lucidity to lucidity during the dream. The "I" in all three, BTW, stands for "Initiated," and not "Induced:"

WILD = Wake Initiated Lucid Dream
DEILD = Dream Exit Initiated Lucid dream
DILD = Dream Initiated Lucid Dream

So: yes, they are all types of LD's (or at least how the LD originated), but DEILD is a form of WILD, and none are induced, but rather initiated.

The other major or original "ILD" (from LaBerge's work), MILD, is the only one where the "I" does stand for "Induced:"

MILD = Mnemonically Induced Lucid Dream

And, though it has that "ILD" in it, MILD is a technique, and not transition descriptor.

Finally, as you've already guessed by now, DEILD is not a technique, but the name for the transition itself.

Ok. I think I understand, sorry that I'm a beginner. I understand now that these are mostly transition descriptors. If I understand the rest correctly;
For WILD you don't specially need a dreamy state, but you need to be in a REM cycle (hence you can do it during an afternoon nap), and DEILD is a shortcut for when you ARE in a very dreamy state and can recall the dream you just had. This needs to be done when you wake from a dream. So I could maybe wake up with a soft tune. DEILD essentially is just the end of WILD, you're already in a dreamy state, while with full WILD you first obtain the dreamy state and then follow kind of the same as a DEILD procedure.

The thing is that I want to have a dream with a good amount of lucidity, so I want to have a LD from wake state, and I also want my friend to have one who has only got one LD before but is getting into it more. So final question, and sorry for going offtopic this much,
Can me and my friend set an app on our phone that needs no snoozing and goes off by itself to play a soft tune at around 5 hours of sleep and then use DEILD to get into our dream? Or is it necessary for us to wake ourselves up?

Thanks

Originally Posted by Stenl38

Ok. I think I understand, sorry that I'm a beginner. I understand now that these are mostly transition descriptors. If I understand the rest correctly;
For WILD you don't specially need a dreamy state, but you need to be in a REM cycle (hence you can do it during an afternoon nap), and DEILD is a shortcut for when you ARE in a very dreamy state and can recall the dream you just had. This needs to be done when you wake from a dream. So I could maybe wake up with a soft tune. DEILD essentially is just the end of WILD, you're already in a dreamy state, while with full WILD you first obtain the dreamy state and then follow kind of the same as a DEILD procedure.

The thing is that I want to have a dream with a good amount of lucidity, so I want to have a LD from wake state, and I also want my friend to have one who has only got one LD before but is getting into it more. So final question, and sorry for going offtopic this much,
Can me and my friend set an app on our phone that needs no snoozing and goes off by itself to play a soft tune at around 5 hours of sleep and then use DEILD to get into our dream? Or is it necessary for us to wake ourselves up?

Thanks

Hi. First do not think I am disagreeing with Sageous, but one of my main techniques is something I have been calling 'alarm DEILD' or 'snooze DEILD' and it works well. He is correct in the way of a normal ringing alarm bell and having to get up to turn it off. What I use is different though. I have an I-Phone and the standard clock feature has choices for sounds, some are very gentle (Silk, and Crystal are ones I like). It also can be put into snooze mode for 9 minutes by pressing one of the volume tabs on the side. I keep the phone in the bed in the place my hand is normally. When the soft sound wakes me, I remain still and do not allow my brain to engage much. I press the button, and keep my hand lightly on the phone, so at the snooze alarm, my hand does not eevn need to move. This way you can attempt DEILD over and over until you get bored or have to get up. The one limit is you may interrupt LDs with the snooze, but it is worth it.

Originally Posted by sivason

Hi. First do not think I am disagreeing with Sageous, but one of my main techniques is something I have been calling 'alarm DEILD' or 'snooze DEILD' and it works well. He is correct in the way of a normal ringing alarm bell and having to get up to turn it off. What I use is different though. I have an I-Phone and the standard clock feature has choices for sounds, some are very gentle (Silk, and Crystal are ones I like). It also can be put into snooze mode for 9 minutes by pressing one of the volume tabs on the side. I keep the phone in the bed in the place my hand is normally. When the soft sound wakes me, I remain still and do not allow my brain to engage much. I press the button, and keep my hand lightly on the phone, so at the snooze alarm, my hand does not eevn need to move. This way you can attempt DEILD over and over until you get bored or have to get up. The one limit is you may interrupt LDs with the snooze, but it is worth it.

Thank you all!

I am glad it is indeed possible, and am also glad Sageous and you helped me. I assume I can install an app to just go off once instead of every 9 minutes. I won't get bored the first couple of times I think!

Also, tomorrow I have 2 weeks holiday so no need to get up per se.

Note that sivason (if I recall correctly) took a long time (years?) to perfect his alarm-DEILD approach and to find the perfectly tuned alarm. So yes it's great news that such a thing is possible, just don't get quickly frustrated, it may take quite a while to get it to work just the right way for you. The key is to keep good records of your experiments, and to keep trying.

My leg automaticly moves for a second when im trying to sleep, kind of like a reflex. Any tips for this if I want to try WILD?

Best advice is ignore it and don't worry about it. The holding still thing is a myth.

Originally Posted by sivason

Best advice is ignore it and don't worry about it. The holding still thing is a myth.

Well maybe not so much a myth as an exaggeration, I think.

Holding still is probably a good idea, and avoiding or at least challenging the rollover impulse is almost an anchor in itself. Indeed, I believe that holding still was meant to be nothing more than just that: avoid (or work with the sensation of) the rollover reflex. How we came to a point where being concerned about thinks like leg twitches are valid issues is more a process of simplification and exaggeration rather than myth-making.

The original techniques for WILD were made for people who do not necessarily possess the mental skills necessary to hold onto self-awareness and focus after rolling over and immediately fall asleep. Therefore it is a good idea to avoid that impulse. However, if your body is demanding attention in other ways, it is better to tend to them than to try to put up with them; in other words, if your nose itches, scratch the damn thing.

I think that WILD has been erroneously simplified in LD'er pop-culture to "Lie down, hold still, and wait." This is not only a wrong and woefully incomplete description, it is also very misleading, in that it allows not-so-experienced LD'ers to write tutorials that assume that you are supposed to hold still no matter what... it's almost become a given that you must lie still no matter what, to the point where threads are regularly created about how to put up with the need to swallow! For God's sakes, if you must swallow just do it!

Okay, I'm rambling. Suffice it to say that there are good reasons to hold still during WILD (especially for beginners who have not mastered hanging onto their focus and self-awareness during very challenging moments like the rollover reflex), but if your body's demands for attention are crushing your WILD attempt, then take a pause and attend away.

Hi Sageous and Gab
I have been reading through both your threads recently along with Sageouses fundamentals thread questions and answers on Wild - which is wonderful but taking ages to get through ha ha wonderful stuff tho really really good! Seriously

In one of your threads on the wild Gab - I came across one particular moment where you were guiding A fellow dreamer in their Wild attempts. The advice you gave struck a chord with me and I wrote it down somewhere and now I cannot find it - something about when you have the hypnagogic images going on for a little while can you pick a point in there in your mind take a point and you say "I am there " ! And then you go to that point- And the dream begins...

This advice struck a chord because it is almost where I have been getting but not quite getting and ofcourse wish to get fully into the dream...
I knew your advice had something for me. I have had quite a few lucid dream so far in a short time but they were all Mild or Dild probably more like Dild as I am a beginner my Mild technique is in very,very early stages. So although this has been the case and I often do wake back to bed and I often get to stages passed my body being very relaxed and twitches stopping, sensation stopping and sometimes I have got to a point where I feel my dream body moving on contorting - like I may feel my jaw my jawbone has dislocated and changed shape this kind of thing. Then recently I definitely noticed the vibration stage, but sometime after this I usually fall asleep or go into a very mellow relaxed state but don't go into any dream. The times that I did have Dild are usually after these attempts at Wild ; sometimes taking up to 2 hours of lying very very still ...then finally when I turned over onto my side and try to keep the lucid dream idea live in my mind as I fell asleep I had most of my Dild successes like this.
Anyway this morning I had many dreams and I knew I had a day off so I had a late lyin bed - with 12 hours of sleep and maybe 5 or 6 recorded dreams but failing to get a Lucid Dream. So by my last dream in the morning I decided as I lay in bed quietly that I wondered what was doing wrong - maybe my perception of it or the way I was saying the mantra maybe my self awareness, but there was something I needed to pinpoint...At that moment I experimented with the way I said the mantra and I felt myself saying "I am dreaming I am dreaming "in a very close way ...where I was almost whispering it to myself within myself ( not speaking out loud tho ) and then I noticed another way of saying it where I was almost saying it to another person outside me ( still not out loud tho - just in my mind )so in other words saying it further away and then I was saying the mantra into myself again...
As I carried on saying the mantra pointing it inwards "I am dreaming I am Dreaming" was bring it into myself obviously in my mind - I started to notice the hypnagogue near points and your advice to the dreamer above I mentioned came into my mind and I should pick pick one of these points and say "I am there".

So I did this and I found myself travelling towards this point and the experience was like nothing I had before like a tunnel I was going towards his point then - Indian music started playing quite loudly ...a enjoyable sound. As it played louder and clearer -I went moving faster towards what point, which I imagined was the dream scene starting to emerge - uuuggghh for some reason I decided to experiment and pull myself back from it slowly so as to really get a feel for this surge that was happening...I felt a surge of going forward and the surge as coming out,and of course at this point I wanted to feel the search going back in again however it didn't happen. I was really annoyed with myself.... And of course happy about having the experience but really wished I'd got in and stayed in the dream scene!
Now I've managed to get that far to do it once do you think that I will be able to do it easily again - of course I want to trust myself that I can but I'm so excited about the fact that I actually managed to do something close what I've been reading about all these months can you give me some advice going forward?

Thank you both and to all at dream views - I'm so grateful to have this inspiring place to come and see these inspiring people like yourselfs sharing your experience and knowledge for others to learn - its wonderful

Originally Posted by Patience108

Now I've managed to get that far to do it once do you think that I will be able to do it easily again - of course I want to trust myself that I can but I'm so excited about the fact that I actually managed to do something close what I've been reading about all these months can you give me some advice going forward?

It seems like you've already carved a nice path for yourself, Patience, and the best advice I can think of is that you stick to your plan. You might not be able to do it more easily next time, but you still might be able to do it... and if you keep to your technique, with practice and experience it eventually should be a lot easier.

The only thing I can suggest beyond that is something you've probably read once or twice on my thread: try not to pay so much attention to the noise. Your failure above was probably directly related to your urge to check out that surge. Also, if you can convince yourself that there really is no vibration stage, or really any stages at all, you won't find yourself making those stages important enough that your WILD is spoiled by their absence or your excitement about their presence.

Your use of HI is an excellent idea, but if you make the HI more important than the dream (i.e., going back to check out that surge), you will probably not make it to the dream. Ironically, from your account above, I would say that you might have already been in your dream, and left it behind to check out the surge.

So: stick to your plan, it's a good one, but try to make the noise less important.

I just read the first post of this thread and I'm quite amazed that it very accurately describes the way I got to having a LD last weekend!

Will try again....., and again, and again

Originally Posted by Hirondelle

I just read the first post of this thread and I'm quite amazed that it very accurately describes the way I got to having a LD last weekend!

Will try again....., and again, and again

Belated congrats!

And yes. Again and again is the way to go.

I've tried the WILD method a number of times and I always end up failing. Every time I get to the point where I can see something, but then there are vibrations and pressure so bad that I actually feel pain? I get pain in my ear drums and head which gets so I bad I wake myself up?

It sounds like you are trying too hard & are tired. That's completely normal so do some other techniques that will induce your LD's. You need to enjoy the experiences & learn from them & then in another week or so try again. For now maybe using a Lucid Dream Induction is good for LD's. You are jumping into the pond before learning to swim. Absorb reading material that is online & offline. Our brains don't like computers a whole lot so you should try some of your research in books as well as online. Audio I find to be the best. You can read my journals & see if any of the material I reference can help you. I wish the best of luck.

Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views - Elaineylane - Dream Journals

Originally Posted by BlackCat

I've tried the WILD method a number of times and I always end up failing. Every time I get to the point where I can see something, but then there are vibrations and pressure so bad that I actually feel pain? I get pain in my ear drums and head which gets so I bad I wake myself up?

It doesn't sound like failure to me. When you feel vibrations or pressure, you may be already dreaming or very close to it. Feeling all kinds of intense or less intense sensations, or not feeling or seeing anything is normal. I don't think whatever we feel is actual physical pain or sensation. Try to look at it as a gateway to lucid dream and accept it. Maybe I'm just lucky, but I am able to welcome any and all sensations. Even those that I know have a potential to become "painful" because they are so intense. But they all last only few seconds and after that you can be in a lucid dream. Good luck!

Thank you Sageous -

I did read through the tutorial on noise and thought about - realised I did want to lucid dream much more than I want to have the experiences on the way - so in the meantime I am doing my best to make the noise unimportant. Shall I go on to next Lesson?

I also have been reading through the fundamentals questions and answers and enjoying it immensely as my interest in self awareness has been there since I was a teenager and maybe befor - I think that the understanding of self awareness that I have been cultivating is very similar to what you speak of. One that involves being present, being aware of one's being - feelings, emotions, knowing clearly that they have an impact on those and stuff around and about - things simply do bounce back from past interactions to my future and into this present moment, the connection in undeniable - where I have my feet on the floor making an impact ...the sounds I can hear how i may get enjoyment or not. As I sit with my back feeling warm against the seat I know that this has been generated because of this connection of my being here! My friends smiling face looking at me - this is the connection we have kindled in this moment and past and if I wish we can go on . In this way It is evident at this moments pause, in this moment, that there is continuous flow of connection going on between myself and my surroundings

- however making sure I have the soft focus on myself allows me to feel grounded here and as you say to have some feeling of existence. This is kind of soft feeling of existence, a gentle touch - when I feel my breath coming to and throw I know there is a connection. Sure it is not always full of joy or excitement but nor is it bad - this simple act for me brings a feeling of knowing...and it's as if one knows where one is - whatever is going on one knows where one is in things.

I have been doing regular practice of the above RRC and then a quick RC i.e working on Memory with expectation and intention through looking a little back and into the future- looking into this Connection between me and my environment so bringing memory of what has happened in recent past is happening now or may happen in a short time in the future. Asking is this a dream? Could it be a dream? Then to kindle expectation with some visualisation. Then quick RC.

Is remembering to experiencing like this regularly through out the day enough to say I am practicing RRC?

So on my day off I did have lots of sleep- many dreams but not LD .Once again tho in the very very late morning after lots of sleep this morning - I began to notice the little snippets of dreams - following them gently on and then ...me finding myself awake in the bed then within the forming dreams again then back awake in bed..my awareness somehow was not strong enough to latch onto any of them moments to see them as lucid - but I feel on the verge in these moments....then there was one almost - like my last experience of almost "diving "into wild ( now I know the term dive!) ;

- I was with my mother and we are watching the television.So on the television there was a TV show host asking us,the public, if this has actually happened in real life and they showed a clip (like a gameshow) .So on the t.v they showed a clip of a machine printing out numbers and The game show Host asked - "in 1982 was there a bill asking The general public to change their Front door numbers to a new number (which ever number they were given) ?"
I said to my mother this is incorrect this is wrong it didn't happen - my mum said "no it's true!"
as I stared into the television I heard my mother's voice saying "it's true,it's true "
and as I heard her voice saying this I began to use the images on the TV has a HI.I started moving towards it drawing the images towards myself and before I knew it was becoming self-aware and remembering that this was a feeling that I had before when trying for wild, then started to go towards the HI more and more but... - I started to wake up and didn't quite make it through again tho

There were also some more attempts during the morning and other mornings this week that consisted mainly of wake back to bed - stayed up for about an hour. Then relaxing getting the HI but always seeming to drift off to sleep before actually reaching the dream I must find a better anchor maybe you could give me some help with this.I did find the 61 point relaxation you mentioned and have been doing this but still managed to drift off - then quite often I will wake up when I'm in the dream or just after and be slightly annoyed that I am in the dream ... It's like a kind of jolt of being in the dream then brings me back to being awake again.

Anyway sorry for the very long post but I don't get much time during the week and so here it is everything poured out in one go! Any help and suggestions most welcome
Thanks very much for your support ( all that you have done that helps us all now !) and input - its very much appreciated

Originally Posted by Patience108

I did read through the tutorial on noise and thought about - realised I did want to lucid dream much more than I want to have the experiences on the way - so in the meantime I am doing my best to make the noise unimportant. Shall I go on to next Lesson?

Sure. But keep in mind that this tutorial is not part of my DVA WILD class; feel free to ask questions on the Q&A thread on that forum, if you have any.

I also have been reading through the fundamentals questions and answers and enjoying it immensely as my interest in self awareness has been there since I was a teenager and maybe befor - I think that the understanding of self awareness that I have been cultivating is very similar to what you speak of. One that involves being present, being aware of one's being - feelings, emotions, knowing clearly that they have an impact on those and stuff around and about - things simply do bounce back from past interactions to my future and into this present moment, the connection in undeniable - where I have my feet on the floor making an impact ...the sounds I can hear how i may get enjoyment or not. As I sit with my back feeling warm against the seat I know that this has been generated because of this connection of my being here! My friends smiling face looking at me - this is the connection we have kindled in this moment and past and if I wish we can go on . In this way It is evident at this moments pause, in this moment, that there is continuous flow of connection going on between myself and my surroundings

I have been doing regular practice of the above RRC and then a quick RC i.e working on Memory with expectation and intention through looking a little back and into the future- looking into this Connection between me and my environment so bringing memory of what has happened in recent past is happening now or may happen in a short time in the future. Asking is this a dream? Could it be a dream? Then to kindle expectation with some visualisation. Then quick RC.

Is remembering to experiencing like this regularly through out the day enough to say I am practicing RRC?

Sure.

There were also some more attempts during the morning and other mornings this week that consisted mainly of wake back to bed - stayed up for about an hour. Then relaxing getting the HI but always seeming to drift off to sleep before actually reaching the dream I must find a better anchor maybe you could give me some help with this.I did find the 61 point relaxation you mentioned and have been doing this but still managed to drift off - then quite often I will wake up when I'm in the dream or just after and be slightly annoyed that I am in the dream ... It's like a kind of jolt of being in the dream then brings me back to being awake again.

The 61 points technique is actually a method for relaxation and not an anchor, so it seems to have worked just fine for you. My preferred anchor is a mantra, and I do have a session dedicated to them in my WILD class, here; hopefully that will help.

That jolt you mention should eventually be less of a problem as you accumulate experience. In the meantime, though, you might use a mantra that counters the jolt (like, "I'm dreaming; I'm calm), because with WILD you are very likely to bring your mantra right into the dream with you.

Thanks Sageous been working a bit with the 4th lesson of prep - working with the Schema - i have had a few near Wilds, will hit the spot one of theese days

So Sageous watching h.i but not taking too much notice of it - right? Had a few mornings of interesting times trying to take note of the chema as i notice the shapes and wonder what they could turn into ... is that right. This has moved into little scenes etc a few times and another time the Hi started to look like an animals Fur ... then later the dream was of a fury animals head, then another, then the animal itsself a little further away - knew I was dreaming and reached out to touch the fury head, coulnt find my hand - then tried to RC and woke up - came out of the dream ..

.Yes, working with staying calm ! Playing with various mantras that remind me I am dreaming and to stay calm as I am safe - is it ok to work with different Mantras all the time or should one find one that is used for a long time?

^^ First, Patience, please remember that this is not my thread, and is not attached to the DVA WILD class session you mention. I'm sure Gab doesn't mind this, but to avoid confusion and maintain the integrity of her thread, I suggest, again, that you bring these things up in the appropriate WILD DVA thread, probably the What Happened? thread in this case. But as long as I'm here:

Originally Posted by Patience108

So Sageous watching h.i but not taking too much notice of it - right?

Right!

Except that your entire report seems to be about watching HI:

Had a few mornings of interesting times trying to take note of the schema as i notice the shapes and wonder what they could turn into ... is that right.

Not quite, but close:

I'm not sure that what you described quite fit the bill for schemas. Schemas are what your mind creates perceptually from those furry heads, and not the furry heads themselves (I'll hold off on describing schemas further, since they are described in the WILD class session you referenced). I think perhaps that those furry heads were actually HI, or dreamlets, which meant that you were still straddling the fence between wake and sleep, so you weren't quite dreaming yet.

So yes, those furry heads were random objects (HI, probably, maybe a dreamlet) that you could have used to form a dream scene (maybe bunching them together to form a wavy grass field, or a thick shag rug in your favorite room), but they were not dream schemas in and of themselves. To assume that they are your dream is to maybe jump the gun a bit, and throw you off your WILD dive. This would explain why your hand disappeared (you didn't have a dream body yet) and why you woke up (you weren't fully asleep yet). When the dream finally arrives -- or when you fully form one yourself, you will know it....be patient, Patience! (sorry, that needed to be done once)

is it ok to work with different Mantras all the time or should one find one that is used for a long time?

Certainly. I use a mantra that corresponds to my particular dream goal, so mine change often. However, I also have a generic mantra ("Here & Now") on which I fall back whenever I need an extra push or perhaps I change my mind about my goals mid dive (which I do a lot, but do not recommend!). I've been using this generic mantra for over 30 years now, and it has proven quite handy.

So I guess the answer here is that you can certainly change your mantra as frequently as you like, but added the tip is that you keep one familiar standard mantra in your mental pocket just in case your chosen mantra isn't working.

Hi Gab - Sorry for putting questions in wrongplace - but while you are here I actualy realy wanted to tell you something - it almost happened a 2nd time where I saw a very particular spot of h.i after some time of staying still and thought it was a " I am there !" Moment - I missed it but a split second after I thought it had been one of those moments... Can you tell me more about when you first started doing that?