Thread: Menthol as a Dream Enhancer

I'm glad you like it, Tradl3s. I hope you have more success with it in the future!

I started re-going over this thread last night and it inspired me to chew down a few cough drops before I went to bed. I had so many lucid dreams. Very vivid. Last night I was particularly trying to practice dialating time throughout the dream, trying to remain in the dream state as long as possible. At one point in the night I remember thinking, "Damn, I've been here a really long time."

Then I had several non lucid/semi lucid dreams afterwards, also very vivid. Interesting.

I read that extracting mint oils from mint leaves and drinking the mint oils is good. Mint oils contain alot of menthol. Check this out:
How to Extract Mint Oils from Leaves: 7 steps - wikiHow

Originally Posted by Nerq

I started re-going over this thread last night and it inspired me to chew down a few cough drops before I went to bed. I had so many lucid dreams. Very vivid. Last night I was particularly trying to practice dialating time throughout the dream, trying to remain in the dream state as long as possible. At one point in the night I remember thinking, "Damn, I've been here a really long time."

Then I had several non lucid/semi lucid dreams afterwards, also very vivid. Interesting.

Very nice! Sounds like you had a pretty good time. Do you have any idea how long that lucid actually was?

Time I post some results as well, even though I have nothing much to speak of.

During the past months I nearly completely switched to drinking only tea throughout the entire day, at home I used a mix of peppermint tea and a special concentration tea with lots of brain-goodies. Unfortunately the only thing so far is that the results where to small to be even sure I could account them to the tea (and by that the menthol in it) at all. I guess unless I find some awesome really mentholy candy by chance anywhere I guess this concludes me tests on menthol for now.

Dose:
Pre-bed: 3g fish oil, 1mg melatonin, 1000mg Taurine
WBTB: 5 tablespoons peppermint leaves steeped for 5 min, 300mg DMAE
Side Effects: Slight insomnia before and after LD.
Sleep Duration: about 5 hours total
WBTB: Yes (30 minutes)
Lucid: YES!
Vividness:Visually low, Physically High. (normal for me)
Stability: Medium
Dream Comments: I was going for WILD but ended up with a DILD. I'm having a hard time recalling the NLD part but something triggered lucidity. I've been having some darkness issues lately that I need to work out but my tactile sensations and physical morphing abilities seem to be getting naturally stronger and easier. I wonder if we are like super heroes and each have our own set of special abilities in LDs?

Anyway heres the link:
Inisde The Claw Machine - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

Dose: Pre-bed: 2g fish oil WBTB: 34.8mg menthol (6 cough drops), 250mg DMAE, 4g fish oil
Side Effects: Mild insomnia
Sleep Duration: 7.5 hours
WBTB: Yes (40 minutes)
Lucid: No
Vividness: High
Stability: ?
Dream Comments: Most dreams were sexy. Mood was pretty good but not quite as comical as some menthol dreams. One dream was non-sexy but was thematically interesting.

The dreams:

1. (Anti-dogmatic?) Reading through magazines in a library. The magazines offer moving pictures and voice narration that tell different stories about people casting off dogmas in various subjects. (Different academic areas, weight training, others)
2. (Semi-sexy) Something about meeting a very attractive woman with salt and pepper hair who is 50 years old.
3. (Sexy!) Wife and I are sleeping on some mattress in a public square with tons of people always walking by. I spend tons of time convincing her to have sex in spite of feeling extremely self-conscious. (Semi-successfully)
4. (Sexy) Wandering a city where every DC is a super-attractive female. (This has happened before.)

I actually couldn't piece together how long I'd been in there at that point after I woke up. Unfortunetly, I believe that I did have success prolonging the legnth of my dream. But my memory just couldn't prove it.

Tonight I'm planning to copy that format you guys have for documenting your experements. So I'll have filled it out by sometime tomorrow. I've started chewing on some cough drops just about a half hour ago, and I'll have probably eaten about 6-7 by the time I go to sleep. So, here' goes.

Dose: 7 cough drops, spread out between 8:15 p.m. - 10:30 p.m. + A One a Day Men's Multivitamin/Mineral Supplent at 9:30.

Side Effects: None.
Sleep Duration: About 9 hours.
WBTB: Yes.

Lucid: Yes.
Vividness: Good.
Stability: Decent.

Dream Comments: I had a very large amount of seperate dreams last night. I had a few lucid scenes in the middle, where I flew around, talked to people and did a few things as usual. One thing I noticed was that in my dream, it seemed like it was an overly bright summer day. So in a sense, it was very bright, but it had a darkened tone as if I would have been squinting. Even though I wasn't squinting. So it was vivid and stable, but at the same time at some kind of strained. Fun, and interesting none the less.


Additional Comments: My One a Day men's supplement has some vitamins and minerals that I've heard being related to dreaming as well. Such as Vitamin B6, Niacin and a few others. Something to keep in mind.

I'm going to try this tonight.

Dose: Pre-bed: 3g fish oil WBTB: mugwort tea, 54.6 menthol (6 crushed cough drops)
Side Effects: None
Sleep Duration: 10hrs
WBTB: Yes (10 minutes, very tired)
Lucid: Yes (fragment)
Vividness: High
Stability: ?
Dream Comments: I had horrible recall all night but got a lucid fragment and a twisted NLD.

I do remember one non lucid were I going to play so kids brass baritone. But when I looked at the mouth piece it was full of spit. I turned it upside down and a ton of clear liquid poured out then some thick white substance that made me think of seminal fluid. I became sick, started to gag, then woke up. I later recall a lucid fragment that I feel is part of a larger dream.

Lucid, I was sitting on the edge of the bathtub in the dark bathroom when I saw a dark shadow pass by the bedroom door. At first I was scared and thought ghost but then for some reason I knew that is must be JoannaB. Then I felt myself in the recliner and sudden intense vibrations. It lasted only a few seconds and I woke up. I tried DEILD to no avail then did a nose plug to be sure.

Edit: Something just jogged my memory. I saw Alyzarin and thought "Oh that's what she looks like in real life." I vividly remember her face but have no other recollection of the dream. For whatever reason she looked a lot like Jayma Mays

Dose: Pre-bed: 2g fish oil WBTB: 34.8mg menthol (6 cough drops), 4800mg soy lecithin, 900mg Valerian Root, 4g fish oil
Side Effects: Moderate insomnia
Sleep Duration: 6.5 hours
WBTB: Yes (30 minutes)
Lucid: Yes!
Vividness: High
Stability: Moderate
Dream Comments: Very imaginative LD with lots of weird stuff going on. Had difficulty becoming lucid -- missed lots of dreamsigns. Low intelligence -- Valerian?

The lucid dream: Vehicle Fire - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

Worked like a charm! I had a nice, reasonably long LD with a vivid and interesting NLD lead-up. All of the menthol weirdness was on hand. Imagination seemed to be exceptionally active and dream length was good. The dream was not exceedingly sexy. Still, as is typical in any menthol dream where I encounter Wife, I seriously considered pursuing sex.

I had some insomnia issues, in spite of the Valerian Root. I did wind up getting back to sleep, but it took some time. I'll need to think about that a bit. It really does seem like insomnia can be an issue once you ingest enough menthol.

Another interesting thing with this dream is that my cognitive abilities and dream control were on the low side. I remembered Task of the Month but got the details a bit scrambled. My conjuration was a little messed up, too, and lots of dreamlike stuff kept happening all on its own without me thinking about it. This was my first time hitting an LD where I used Valerian Root for anti-insomnia, so I'll have to keep an eye out for whether it seems to dull the mind.

And heaven help me, but I'm getting a little tired of sucking down 6 cough drops. Maybe I'll try dropping back to 4 drops and see if I still get sufficient D2 activation but maybe a little less insomnia. Or maybe swap back to making peppermint tea for a couple of trials. I like the greater precision of using cough drops, but the taste is catching up with me!

All in all, a great night!

Dose: Pre-bed: 2g fish oil WBTB: 23.2mg menthol (6 cough drops), 250mg DMAE, 900mg Valerian Root, 4g fish oil
Side Effects: None
Sleep Duration: 6.5 hours
WBTB: Yes (20 minutes)
Lucid: No
Vividness: Completely lifelike (!)
Stability: n/a
Dream Comments: One of the most vivid NLDs of my life.

I can't think of any other experience where menthol more lived up to the thread title: "Menthol as a dream enhancer".

The dream itself is too personal to share, but the memory of the dream feels almost exactly like a waking life memory. It was much less "imaginative" than a typical menthol dream. Also, the dream was pretty much 100% non-sexy. The mood was reflective, content, and philosophical.

Probably one of the most striking dreams of my life. It was a little tough waking up from it and realizing that none of it had actually happened.

I think that I want to bring menthol back in for my next galantamine night. If menthol is activating D2 in the way that Aly's theory suggests it might, there could be huge synergy in this combination.

Originally Posted by CanisLucidus

I can't think of any other experience where menthol more lived up to the thread title: "Menthol as a dream enhancer".

The dream itself is too personal to share, but the memory of the dream feels almost exactly like a waking life memory. It was much less "imaginative" than a typical menthol dream. Also, the dream was pretty much 100% non-sexy. The mood was reflective, content, and philosophical.

Probably one of the most striking dreams of my life. It was a little tough waking up from it and realizing that none of it had actually happened.

I think that I want to bring menthol back in for my next galantamine night. If menthol is activating D2 in the way that Aly's theory suggests it might, there could be huge synergy in this combination.

Woo you had one too. I had a pretty insane dream on menthol once too, it wasn't my best ever but it was pretty freaking amazing. It seems that whenever I have a good menthol night my dreams seem to be filled full of philosophical debates and moral question...and weird geometric shapes, it's almost like the movie waking life

Dose: Pre-bed: 2g fish oil, 100mg B6, 100mg 5-htp WBTB: 30.8mg menthol (2 cough drops), 4mg galantamine, 300mg alpha-gpc, 450mg choline salts, 900mg Valerian Root, 4g fish oil
Side Effects: None, really. Fell asleep very easily during WBTB.
Sleep Duration: 5.5 hours
WBTB: Yes, at wrong time (90 minutes)
Lucid: No
Vividness: Completely lifelike (again!)
Stability: n/a
Dream Comments: Very vivid, imaginative dreams

My dog went nuts last nights at 2 in the morning, thereby ruining my "special galantamine/menthol night". Still! In spite of not getting lucid and getting very little sleep, I was treated to a night of very, very vivid and imaginative dreams.

The dreams were much more imaginative and fanciful this time than the last. Many different areas of history, life, and my interests were blended together into a really interesting night. I'd have very much liked to experience it all while lucid, but it was still a pretty amazing night of dreaming. I did randomly kiss one DC for reasons that are still unclear to me, but on the whole last night's dreams were not sexy.

After talking with Xanous, I'm beginning to think that I may be overdoing the Valerian Root a bit. With all those supps, I should have some struggle getting back to sleep, but it is easy with the valerian. That is probably a bad sign, so I'll adjust or remove it entirely. If I run into serious insomnia, I could also go back to relying on L-theanine for a little settling effect.

I'm loving the successes, guys! You seem like you're really starting to get heavy into the supplements in general, too! These are some awesome combos you guys are taking lol.

Particularly this one:

Originally Posted by CanisLucidus

Dose: Pre-bed: 2g fish oil, 100mg B6, 100mg 5-htp WBTB: 30.8mg menthol (2 cough drops), 4mg galantamine, 300mg alpha-gpc, 450mg choline salts, 900mg Valerian Root, 4g fish oil

Three different plant-based aids! That sounds like my kind of trip! No wonder your dreams were so "imaginative and fanciful".

Just so you know what you're getting yourself into here... valerian root also has psychedelic properties in high doses. I've heard it compared visually to LSD and DMT, but "different" and much lighter, on separate occasions. Given the fact that it works through separate GABA channels than menthol too and in fact contains GABA itself, there could also be some synergistic potentiation there. I believe that many of valerian's psychedelic effects may actually be serotonergic though, the classical way. Check this out:




On the top left is DMT. The top right is psilocin, which is the psychedelic compound in mushrooms, and the active metabolite of psilocybin. On the bottom left is valerenic acid, one of the active compounds in valerian root. And lastly, on the bottom right is LSD.

When you see this all right next to each other, it's easy to see how their could be some pharmacological overlap. Valerenic acid plays a major role in the GABA effects, but it's also been shown to bind to at least 5-HT5A receptors. They act as autoreceptors and lowers the release of serotonin to regulate the sleep-wake cycle. That leads to REM-like states of mind and plays a role in the effects of psychedelics which lower serotonin through an array of autoreceptors. It's possible it has other actions at serotonin receptors too, but I'm not sure. Everything I've heard suggests that it might, though. Galantamine is also much more than just an acetylcholine booster and has some dopamine-releasing properties as well in the prefrontal cortex, and it's been known to potentiate the effects of psychedelics.

So all in all, you've got a lot of outside influence here which does much more than just enhance your natural processes like a vitamin or nutrient. My guess is that the reason your dreams are becoming so powerful and vivid is because you're starting to push beyond the realm of just taking healthy supplements for dreams and into something more akin to a nightly shamanic voyage.

Right on, Aly, awesome info as usual! What kind of valerian doses do people employ for recreational use? With 900mg I'm already getting KTFO'd.

You know, the G + menthol combination has never failed to impress me. (Xanous had a G+menthol mega-lucid last night which he'll probably post up in here later.) I already suspected lots of synergy between G and menthol, but you're suggesting additional angles that I hadn't even considered. For me, the worry with that combo is strictly insomnia, which I was letting the valerian take care of. It looks like that may have been TOO effective at knocking me out, and I went under too quickly to WILD.

Hey, I never knew that G potentiated the effects of some psychedelics! That's really cool to find out.

Ahh, fun fun stuff. I find myself... overwhelmed with options.

Originally Posted by Alyzarin

you're starting to push beyond the realm of just taking healthy supplements for dreams and into something more akin to a nightly shamanic voyage.

LOL, nice. The "Location" section of my profile does need updating -- "nightly shamanic voyage" may be just the thing.

Well, much higher than that, that's for sure. There isn't really a standard for psychedelic effects from valerian, most people don't use it for that and there seems to be a lot of variance in how easily people can get those effects from it. Not surprising considering that a) valerian extracts can range from effective to essentially worthless and b) its GABAergic effects are stronger than its serotonergic effects, and since GABA drugs are generally used to abort psychedelic trips I'm sure there's a narrow margin for what's a good dose.... To give an example of how widely it varies though, I've heard of people getting trippy effects from ~4 grams of extract and others not getting them from ~10. However, whenever I hear people talk about using the actual root there's usually something, the most recent one I read was someone who used 25-50 grams and could definitely feel a serotonergic stimulation regularly. There seem to be a lot of factors involved, but given what I've heard I would probably only use the whole root for a strong effect, but most people who use it recreational are only using it for the GABA stuff anyway.... I took 3.5 grams of extract once and didn't get much more than tired, but I did sleep really well lol.

Oh yeah, galantamine is a cool substance. I'm sure it enhances all kinds of things. I'm also very interested in the combination of it and menthol.... I wonder if it's simply additive or actually synergistic? And I wonder how much they know about galantamine, like if it hits any other obscure sites besides things related to acetylcholine....

Isn't it great, though? There are so many wonderful supplements out there just begging to be used.

Originally Posted by Alyzarin

I took 3.5 grams of extract once and didn't get much more than tired, but I did sleep really well lol.

Oh yeah, that would knock me out for sure! I'm not going to try to replicate the 3.5 grams feat. The last time I went head to head with you on melatonin I wound up just embarrassing myself.

Originally Posted by Alyzarin

Oh yeah, galantamine is a cool substance. I'm sure it enhances all kinds of things. I'm also very interested in the combination of it and menthol.... I wonder if it's simply additive or actually synergistic? And I wonder how much they know about galantamine, like if it hits any other obscure sites besides things related to acetylcholine....

I don't know, but I really wonder the same thing! The most straightforward explanation is to simply say, hey, menthol seems to yield an increase in interesting, imaginative dreaming (via D2, presumably), and the more dreaming you're doing, the more you're giving G to work with to create interesting, engaging lucids. But is that the whole truth? Is there something more?

Science demands answers. We carry the weight of history on our shoulders.

Am I remembering right that you've not really done much with G before? Had you ever considered giving it a shot?

Peppermint Tea Update!!

This is a cool one. It involves menthol too, but it's even more important to peppermint tea as a whole. So check it out, first of all menthol was verified to have dopamine-promoting actions as a stimulant:

Evidence for the involvement of dopamine in ... [J Pharmacol Sci. 2003] - PubMed - NCBI

Originally Posted by Evidence for the involvement of dopamine in ambulation promoted by menthol in mice.

Abstract

The present study examines the mechanism that underlies the ability of menthol (ME), a major constituent of peppermint oil, to promote mouse ambulation. We initially confirmed that bupropion (BUP), a dopamine (DA) uptake inhibitor, promotes ambulation in ICR mice. Since the subcutaneous administration of ME produced similar effects in mice, we investigated the effects of ME on ambulation when combined with BUP. The results showed that BUP potentiated the effect of ME on mouse ambulation. We then examined effects of the DA antagonists chlorpromazine, haloperidol, fluphenazine, spiperone, and SCH12679 on the ability of BUP and ME to promote ambulation. All of these DA antagonists attenuated the effects of BUP and ME. Prior exposure to reserpine, which depletes monoamines, caused decreased sensitivity to the ability of BUP and of ME in promoting ambulation. The tyrosine hydroxylase inhibitor alpha-methyl-p-tyrosine, similarly decreased subsequent sensitivity to the effects of BUP and ME. These results suggest that DA is involved in the abilities of ME and BUP to promote ambulation in mice.

But that's not even the best part. Menthone and pulegone, two other peppermint tea constituents of which the former was briefly discussed much earlier in this thread, were shown to share this dopaminergic activity!

Evidence for dopamine involvement in... [Pharmacol Biochem Behav. 2009] - PubMed - NCBI

Originally Posted by Evidence for dopamine involvement in ambulation promoted by menthone in mice.

Abstract

The present study examines the mechanism that underlies the ability of menthone (MTN), a constituent of peppermint oil, to promote mouse ambulation. Since bupropion (BUP), a dopamine (DA) uptake inhibitor, promotes mouse ambulation, the effect of MTN combined with BUP on ambulation was investigated. The results showed that BUP with MTN produced an additive interaction on mouse ambulation. The effects of DA antagonists chlorpromazine, fluphenazine, haloperidol, SCH12679 and spiperone on the ability of MTN to promote ambulation were then examined. All of these antagonists attenuated the effects of MTN. Prior exposure to the tyrosine hydroxylase inhibitor alpha-methyl-p-tyrosine, which inhibits catecholamines synthesis, decreased subsequent sensitivity to the effect of MTN. These results suggest that DA is involved in the ability of MTN to promote ambulation in mice.

Evidence for dopamine involvement in... [Pharmacol Biochem Behav. 2010] - PubMed - NCBI

Originally Posted by Evidence for dopamine involvement in ambulation promoted by pulegone in mice.

Abstract

I investigated whether dopamine (DA) is involved in the ambulation promoted by pulegone (PUL), a constituent of peppermint oil, in ICR mouse. Co-administration of PUL and bupropion (BUP) had an additive effect on their ambulation-promoting activities. When administered with PUL, the DA antagonists chlorpromazine, fluphenazine, haloperidol, SCH12679, and spiperone all attenuated the effect of PUL on ambulation. In addition, pretreatment with the DA depletor reserpine produced no subsequent sensitivity to the effect of PUL. Taken together, DA may be involved in the ability of PUL to promote ambulation in ICR mice but PUL may not be a direct DA agonist. The chemical structure of PUL is similar to menthol and menthone, and thus they may all be acting through a common mechanism.

If you still haven't realized the best part of this, then let me spell it out for you: as far as I know, there is no known constant between these three chemicals to cause this effect. This means that they may all be causing this dopamine increase through yet another unexplored mechanism!! It also means that using peppermint tea over straight menthol should increase the ratio of dopaminergic effects to menthol's other activity, which could be quite useful and which may have contributed to the known activity of peppermint tea as an aphrodisiac. I don't have much else to say about this yet, but I think it certainly adds to the credibility of using the tea for experimentation!

Originally Posted by CanisLucidus

Oh yeah, that would knock me out for sure! I'm not going to try to replicate the 3.5 grams feat. The last time I went head to head with you on melatonin I wound up just embarrassing myself.

Hahaha, well no worries, I don't think there would be much of a point to it anyway. You'd probably be out like a log for a long night of dreamless sleep lol.

Originally Posted by CanisLucidus

I don't know, but I really wonder the same thing! The most straightforward explanation is to simply say, hey, menthol seems to yield an increase in interesting, imaginative dreaming (via D2, presumably), and the more dreaming you're doing, the more you're giving G to work with to create interesting, engaging lucids. But is that the whole truth? Is there something more?

Science demands answers. We carry the weight of history on our shoulders.

Am I remembering right that you've not really done much with G before? Had you ever considered giving it a shot?

Well then, we'll certainly have to do more research, won't we? By which I mean I'll probably start the moment I finish this post.

I've used it as a memory supplement to make up for abusing diphenhydramine, but I've only tried it for dreams once before going to bed and I think I got distracted and didn't try to remember much in the morning, I can't recall exactly now though. I do have some GalantaMind so I'm thinking about going for it again, it would be nice to have another really vivid lucid....

@Aly
This means I was right about peppermint tea all along?
This is so cool, I knew menthol wouldn't be the only thing in there affecting our brain, in most peppermint plants its actually in a 1:1 ration to menthone.

Side note: must buy some valerian, mugwort and any other dream enhancing plants I can find so I can grow them myself.
Does valerian grow natively in America, over here we only have fake valerian which isn't even related to it

WhooHoo go tea! Great find Aly! That must be why I've had so much more luck with peppermint tea than cough drops or oil. BTW I temporarily lost access for some crazy reason. I'm really glad to be back. lol. I had some peppermint tea with Glantamine Friday night with some awesome results.

Dose: Pre-bed: 3Grams Fish Oil, 200-5HTP, 5 melatonin WBTB: 1/4 cup peppermint leaves steeped. 8MG Galantamine, 250MG Choline, 300MG GPC, 100MG L-Theanine.
Side Effects: NONE except for some sexual content.
Sleep Duration: 8hours
WBTB: Yes
Lucid: Yes X 2
Vividness: High
Stability: High
Dream Comments: The first dream was super long. Judging from the time I got into the WILD to the time I woke from the dream it was around 45-60min long. My Headless Double - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views. The second dream was much later and was shorter. Pretty Floors - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views. I think menthol played a huge role in the ease and length of the first dream. I was VERY pleased.

Originally Posted by Alyzarin

This means that they may all be causing this dopamine increase through yet another unexplored mechanism!! It also means that using peppermint tea over straight menthol should increase the ratio of dopaminergic effects to menthol's other activity, which could be quite useful and which may have contributed to the known activity of peppermint tea as an aphrodisiac. I don't have much else to say about this yet, but I think it certainly adds to the credibility of using the tea for experimentation!

Really exciting info, Aly! Between this and the fact that the cough drop taste is kind of wearing thin, I may have to go back to peppermint tea. The lack of precision in terms of menthol content is always going to bother me, but it looks like it's not all about the menthol anyway! Thanks for digging all of this up!

This thread is awesome.

Originally Posted by Alyzarin

I've used it as a memory supplement to make up for abusing diphenhydramine, but I've only tried it for dreams once before going to bed and I think I got distracted and didn't try to remember much in the morning, I can't recall exactly now though. I do have some GalantaMind so I'm thinking about going for it again, it would be nice to have another really vivid lucid....

Ah, cool! I know you don't enjoy WBTB, but for G it's probably a good idea. Xanous tried G at bedtime once and as I recall it didn't work very well and led to kind of a lousy night's sleep. I've yet to find a primary lucid aid that is as powerful as G. And G + menthol has been amazing so far!