Hey Nfri, I have a theory that it's not as simple as that. |
|
This picutre should show you why wild is uncertain method. |
|
Last edited by Sivason; 11-02-2014 at 03:48 AM.
Hey Nfri, I have a theory that it's not as simple as that. |
|
Hi Goldenspark! |
|
Last edited by Nfri; 10-26-2014 at 11:08 PM.
That picture actually showed the most important reason why many techniques like WILD, FILD, DEILD and also SSILD fail. In fact , we attempt them maybe at a wrong time which our brain wave is not suitable to have LD. Maybe that's why people who are master in DILD , have always success in LD. Because practicing DILD is not depended on which sleeping state we are while falling sleep. |
|
I guess people are all different, but as I understand it, the various sleep states are dominated by hormone balance, where a shift in hormones causes a shift in state, e.g. the drift from nREM into REM. |
|
Yes, I usually wake up at the end of REM and I'm unable to wild as well. But if I'm accidentally (flatmate, girlfriend or outside noises) woken up in the midle of REM, then it's easy to DEILD or VILD for me. |
|
*sigh* So ideally, we need to wake up after a dream (REM), and go directly into another REM period? And doesn't deep sleep cease to happen after roughly 4.5 hours of sleep, as shown in charts like this one? If so, what we would need to do is wake up naturally after 4-5 or more hours of sleep, after a dream (in REM), do a WILD technique and pray that REM sleep comes next instead of light sleep, lol. |
|
Last edited by mimihigurashi; 10-28-2014 at 02:10 PM.
Hey mimihigurashi, good remarks. |
|
Last edited by Nfri; 10-28-2014 at 04:02 PM.
Is that so? Well, lucky me then, I fit those criteria. So the more routine and normal your life is, the more likely you are to have a normal sleep cycle, makes sense. I did go through my dream journal out of curiousity, I wish I had marked the fall asleep and awake time of more successful WILDs I had in the past, but from the few that I found with time details written, they all coincided with the patterns indicated in the sleep charts, the WILDs were successful roughly after 5 and 6.5 hours of sleep, during the 3rd and 4th REM period. I'm going to start experimenting with this from tomorrow morning on. |
|
I wonder what some of our proficient WILDers would think about this (sivason, Sageous, anotherdreamer--if I left you out, no offense). "Waiting around" for another REM period seems suspect to me, though Daniel Love recommends this in his book. I am guessing it is really a matter of attention. If you are sble to maintain focus throughout yhe transition, shouldn't be a big deal. Also, isnt the NREM barrier super thin in the morning? Almost all of my WILDs have occurred early/late morning, with an almost automatic drop into REM. |
|
Stephen LaBerge's tips for MILD: (http://www.dreamviews.com/lucid-expe...ml#post2160952
one does not simply rem.jpg |
|
Gonna use one of those Android apps to try to pinpoint my REM periods. And maybe have an auto-dismiss alarm go off during the 3rd or 4th. Hope it's gonna work.. |
|
Last edited by ThreeCat; 10-29-2014 at 05:08 PM.
Stephen LaBerge's tips for MILD: (http://www.dreamviews.com/lucid-expe...ml#post2160952
I think you might be making this problem far more complicated than it really is, Nfri |
|
Last edited by Sageous; 10-29-2014 at 07:15 PM.
Hi ThreeCat, the waiting around thing may just be me. It's possible that I am just not accomplished enough to drop back into REM after an awakening at the end of, or during, a REM episode. |
|
Check out Sageous's class. I think many if us, after we've fully awakened from REM, are SOL concerning WILD. Better (like Sageous says above) to find that moment if awareness directly after awakening, when we're still in hypnopompic, and DEILD from there. |
|
Stephen LaBerge's tips for MILD: (http://www.dreamviews.com/lucid-expe...ml#post2160952
Hi Sageous, thanks for your remarks and I'm glad that you (as one of the few) highlights the importance of timing in your DVA WILD class second session. |
|
No, dreamy thoughts only keep you in the right state of mind during WBTB. I'm not sure anything can "summon" REM; your REM periods will come as scheduled according to your sleep cycle that night (which is why it is best to do WILD after several hours of sleep, so you don't have to worry so much about catching -- or summoning -- the next REM period). |
|
Last edited by Sageous; 11-02-2014 at 03:41 AM.
Exploring nREM can be a good hobby in and of itself. |
|
I'm glad that you said this guys. Do you see the catch? Some people like you have the ability to stay aware during NREM barriers - light sleep mostly. For wild expert like you, there isn't much a problem to be lucid in NREM barriers. For wild noobs like me it is almost impossible to stay awake during this phase. I fall asleep (lose awareness) or stay awake. |
|
Last edited by Nfri; 11-02-2014 at 01:55 PM.
Okay, Nfri. This is your thread and, even though I make a real effort to pay attention to the difficulties of novices, and certainly still remember the ones I endured, I suppose I could be underestimating or simply choosing to ignore this REM barrier. So, aside from one last point (in a sec), I'll concede, and step back so you can build this thread as you see fit. The only functional recommendation I can add is what I've already said: do your WILD after 5 hours of sleep, and experiment until you find your personal sweet-spot of closely-spaced REM periods, and this barrier will not be a problem. The only other disagreement I will offer is that I have seen many novices become lucid through that REM barrier without issue or real problem; I really do not think that you must have guru-level skills in order to negotiate a few minutes of darkness waiting for the dream to form. But I suppose I could be wrong, and those novices were just lucky. |
|
Nfri |
|
Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is.
Hi, |
|
Last edited by MisakaMikoto; 11-03-2014 at 09:59 PM.
I'm back! Again? Uhhh..
|
|
FryingMan's Unified Theory of Lucid Dreaming: Pay Attention, Reflect, Recall -- Both Day and Night[link]
FryingMan's Dream Recall Tips -- Awesome Links
“No amount of security is worth the suffering of a mediocre life chained to a routine that has killed your dreams.”
"...develop stability in awareness and your dreams will change in extraordinary ways" -- TYoDaS
Bookmarks