Thread: How to counter skeptics' statements on Astral Projection?

Occam's razor is actually the approach I've taken to conclude that Astral Projection is real, but I tend to draw, "data" from humans and history, our stories, and our experiences (not to mention their metaphors) as much as I draw from science... although after a while you realize there isn't anything "simple" about these ideas. They are rather complex. Even the label, "Astral projection" is nothing more than attempting to define a level of consciousness and awareness in another sphere of REALITY that is most definitely not this one, but most assuredly as REAL as this one to the perspective of the one experiencing it.

What I mean is, I've read enough accounts and had... enough of my own experiences to know that at some level of lucidity... whether you're staring at your hands, glancing at the sky, or looking around at your surroundings... in THAT moment, your "awareness" is just as present, if not MORE present, than when you are wide awake. It causes a mind blowing moment where in that "dream-state," "astral state," whatever you want to call it, you're telling your self in your super lucidity, "This is real. Whatever is happening to me right now is totally real. I know I'm not awake and everything is that I'm seeing and experiencing is real. I can feel, smell, taste, touch, and hear... and I can create." You feel totally empowered and free, and in that moment, THIS life even feels like a dream!

You're sitting there in that complete state of awareness where you can fly, jump through walls, and feel totally free... and yet like a skeptic and a scientist, and you're going, "Well, now I'm REALLY fucking confused because I feel like I'm wide awake and on 12,000 shots of caffeine without the side effects! Why the fuck does this feel so real... even... more real than waking life?"

Most people that realize they are lucid in their dream still don't maintain their FULL level of awareness they'd have if they were awake. Imagine what it would be like to have that level of awareness and to have all 5... no... 6... of your senses working perfectly (not to mention the abilities of Goku), while you were dreaming. Would you stop in awe and fascination? You would revel in wonder and amazement?

Do you think those monks that sit there and go, "Om..." all day are just experiencing blackness and calmness? No. With enough training you learn to master access the, "dream world" through meditation via falling asleep consciously. That's all meditation on deeper levels is... falling asleep consciously and "dreaming." This "dreaming" is the Rabbit Hole. No one knows how deep it goes, but once you've fallen in and you've seen Wonderland, like Alice your curiosity gets the best of you and constantly search for more, because what you're finding and experiencing is just too damn interesting.

Now whether or not this "inner world" is a part of your soul and is part of the life/death transition is another topic. It'll suffice to say that it seems most people who have mastered the art of deep dreaming/meditation/AP/(whatever semantic label you want to use) tend to agree there is a connection between the realms accessed through dreams/meditation and what happens to consciousness at death.

Couple this all with the fact that most of the most successful people in the world were/are dreamers. Hell, "Yesterday," Paul's most famous tune, came to him in a dream. I've sat in my dreams consciously and listened to music my mind creates... the bass, the guitar, the drum, I can normally hear 5-6 different elements all harmoniously being composed. (quarter notes, triplets, you name it.) The last time it happened a few nights ago I was sitting there thinking, "damn.... I'm gonna forget this almost right away when I wake up... I really need to get a keyboard or something."

There's always a possibility that Astral Projection exists. But if the phenomenon can't be separated from lucid dreams, then it is absolutely uninteresting. We might as well call it a lucid dream. There's nothing saying that you actually go to another plane of existence whenever you Astral Project. Who's to say that it doesn't simply seem that way?

Concerning the bold: AP and Lucid Dreaming are just labels for different levels of awareness. The more aware you are while dreaming, the more doors you have access to, metaphorically speaking. Awareness is obtained through dedication and intent. Awareness leads to enlightenment and the understanding that some things can only be experienced and not explained unless you've met someone else who has experienced the same.

I admire your goal to become a natural lucid dreamer. You like anyone else are on a quest for truth and you're going to do it your own way, which is good. As someone who has been both a skeptic and believer many times, I want to say I'm confident that more and more of us are finding common ground every day, and I'm actually quite hopeful at the progress communities like these will make over the next few years.

-K