Thread: Vision Quest

A vision quest without a psychedelic drug is like going to a concert without music. Totally pointless.

Also, you don't need to go into the woods. A vision quest can be done from the safety of your bedroom, or any other place. Doesn't matter.

I'd suggest going on a practice run, of an afternoon, evening, and night. Especially if you've never been in the woods at night before. I would strongly recommend against the use of psychedelics until you know how they affect you (though you seem to know this). If you can't get to sleep, that'd be the perfect time to meditate, to commune with nature and synchronize the internal (your thoughts and internally-arisen feelings) with the external (your sensory experiences). Star-gazing is fun, too (the stars haven't changed their positions appreciably since the rise of man). As you (slowly) hike around, find places or patterns/arrangements or creatures that you feel a connection to: a stream with musically-flowing water, an out-of-place boulder, a batch of lichen-covered tree trunks, a mated pair of birds, a dandelion in the midst of going to seed. Describe the connection, and try to realize why it's important to you, why you were drawn to it in the first place.

I've never gone on an official 'quest.' But I've walked upwards of 20 miles in a day, and I think about stuff as I go.

Originally Posted by Abra

I would strongly recommend against the use of psychedelics until you know how they affect you (though you seem to know this).

And how is she supposed to find out how they affect her? The farmer's almanac?

Originally Posted by cmind

And how is she supposed to find out how they affect her? The farmer's almanac?

You try them in a familiar, comfortable environment (one where you have access to food, water, tiolet, bed/couch, and in Zhaylin's case, anti-anxiety medications). You have a sitter whom you trust and feel good around. From what Zhaylin described of her vision quest and woodland experience, not in the woods, alone, without remedial contingencies. That's how.

rofl CMind. That's how I felt at first too. I really did not want to do one without the other. But it would be irresponsible at this point. Especially my first time in the woods, alone, at night, with no safety net.
If I ever get ahold of psychedelics, I'll use them in the safety of my home first to see how I react to them.

And I am very happy to say that I HAVE potentially gotten ahold of a mind altering substance. My hubby's ex-wife is a wonder with trees and flowers. We picked up his daughter from his exes house and I was praising her green thumb and asking questions about one of her trees and about cuttings and transplanting trees etc. She had just started a plant and gave it to me. The plant is a type of Angel Trumpet tree- the pods of which are related to Dutura (sp). Now I just need to take care of the tree, get it to grow and flower and hope it drops pods

I told my hubby that I'm going to the Farm for three days to detox and that hopefully, I'll come back nicotine free. I told my sons the whole truth however. I'm bringing my youngest son to the Farm with me. He'll clean and take care of the place while I set off on my journey. My oldest son is staying home and I've already instructed him to let my hubby know the true nature of my trip if I'm not back by midnight on Wednesday so hubby can call the cavalry

There are isolated and scattered thunderstorms forecast for Tuesday and Wednesday but I'm not waiting on the weather. My mom used to always tell me "Shit don't melt" and I've carried that with me my whole life. Rain doesn't bother me. And the woods are so thick and cliffs [jutting cliffs with overhangs] are so readily available that I'll be fine.

**Oh yeah.. I would love to go on said quest within the comfort of my home, but that's not reasonable. There are way too many distractions. Between my kids, pets and the internet, I'd never get any soul searching done.

Oh boy... I strongly advise against the use of Datura. It contains nasty substances that are not related to the classical psychedelics (lsd, shrooms, peyote, etc.). Its effects are more of a fevered delirium than a psychedelic trip. Bad mojo.

Well, doggone it!!

Guess I'll keep looking Thanks for the heads up.

My heart started pounding when you mentioned Datura. XD Yeah, DON'T do that. It's really, really dangerous. The dosages vary wildly and the hallucinogenic chemicals in it are highly toxic and will often leave you with lasting damage to both your brain and heart, among other things (like eyes). The visions were also be totally meaningless and not helpful at all; they'll often contain sexual or violent themes, and will most likely be horrifying from start to finish. Your anxiety would mess with you soooo bad too, and afterward it would probably remain much worse than normal.

Just in case you're wondering what the trip is like, as cmind said, it's not at all psychedelic like morning glories or mimosa hostilis, or any of the more traditional ones. The hallucinations are similar to taking ~40-50 Benadryl (diphenhydramine) pills. No no.

I repeat: DOGGONE it!! lol I now have something within my reach and it's worthless

My anxiety is really physical only. Things don't "scare" me. I think my anxiety may actually be a form of sensory overload. Crowds bother me but only because there's so much emotion and chaos. I mean, I worry about stuff but it's all practical like raising kids, having enough money etc.
I'm a good/kind-hearted person, not at all prone to paranoia or thoughts/fears of persecution.
Do I still need to be wary of bad trips? (No matter what the drug may be?)

I also have a very skeptical/dismissive attitude about being under the influence. (True or not) I think people act like sluts, goofballs, violent, whatever when they're under the influence because such behavior is almost expected and it gives people an excuse to act out (subconsciously or otherwise). I've been extremely drunk and extremely high in my lifetime but I never acted contrary to my nature. If anything, I become more contemplative.
I'm also aware of my inner workings, motives etc. Like, if I'm in a bad mood for seemingly no reason, I ask myself WTF then think on it. I examine the factors- meds, diet, interactions etc.
Because of all of that part of me thinks I wont have any notable experience while tripping.
Are any of those beliefs true though lol?

Originally Posted by Zhaylin

I'm a good/kind-hearted person, not at all prone to paranoia or thoughts/fears of persecution.
Do I still need to be wary of bad trips? (No matter what the drug may be?)

Well, let's assume that we restrict ourselves to true psychedelics (because that's where I have experience). Chances are, if you're on medication, that means that you have some emotional issues that WILL come out in a trip. People say that bad trips are uncommon, but they really aren't. I've tripped a few times myself and I've never had a trip that didn't go bad at some point.

However, I have a perhaps controversial view on this subject because I personally think that a bad trip is what you should be aiming for (but not with Datura!). A bad psychedelic trip will lead to true healing in the months and years following it, although in the short run it could mess you up pretty bad. In my example, a really horrible trip caused me to quit taking all the meds I was on for depression and anxiety, which was tough for a while, but it lead to me overcoming a lot of my issues and no longer needing meds. But if you have kids depending on you, it's a tough call.

YMMV

Originally Posted by Zhaylin

I also have a very skeptical/dismissive attitude about being under the influence. (True or not) I think people act like sluts, goofballs, violent, whatever when they're under the influence because such behavior is almost expected and it gives people an excuse to act out (subconsciously or otherwise). I've been extremely drunk and extremely high in my lifetime but I never acted contrary to my nature. If anything, I become more contemplative.

Yes, alcohol seems to bring out a bad side in some people. But trust me, psychedelics are NOTHING like alcohol.

Originally Posted by Zhaylin

I'm also aware of my inner workings, motives etc. Like, if I'm in a bad mood for seemingly no reason, I ask myself WTF then think on it. I examine the factors- meds, diet, interactions etc.
Because of all of that part of me thinks I wont have any notable experience while tripping.
Are any of those beliefs true though lol?

That's good that you introspect about your feelings. If everyone was able to do that then the world would be a much better place.

But yes, you will absolutely 100% guaranteed no question have experiences while tripping. As long as you dose appropriately, there's no way you won't have experiences. This isn't like weed where it's a choice of whether or not to let it in; this stuff (shrooms, lsd, etc.) will grab you and not let go.

Both of your anxiety medication could interact (possibly reducing the effect, possibly becoming toxic) with a psychedelic, so make sure you do some proper research on interactions when you've settled on a substance. It wouldn't hurt to post the substance here either, and ask us to double check.

Originally Posted by Zhaylin

Do I still need to be wary of bad trips? (No matter what the drug may be?)

From what I've read you should always be prepared for bad trips, but that is not the same as worrying about them. But I'd definitely spend a few hours reading about various ways of handling bad trips, so that if it does happen it won't freak you out.

The Balance provides, the Balance protects. Trust the Balance, and trust yourself. Good bye, and good luck on your journey

Zhaylin,

Erowid is a great resource for substances of any kind. When deciding the substance of your choice, that would be a good place to research effects, dosages, and read about other people's experiences. Shrooms, I think, are the best place to start for first time psychedelic users, especially for a vision quest.

I second what khh said, and don't worry about a bad trip, but be prepared for it. To facilitate a good trip, its all about set and setting. Have the trip in your home, set aside a room where you will feel really comfortable. I like to have candles, incense, and my favorite music. (Having art supplies on hand is always fun, too ) Make sure to have a sitter who is someone you really trust, feel comfortable with, and understands your goals with the vision quest. Set your intentions on what you hope to learn before you trip, as well.

When you decide which psychedelic you would like to experiment with, try just putting your intention out into the universe and maybe it will just come your way when you're ready. There is a certain hallucinogen I've been wanting to try for a long time now, but never actively looked for it. A few weeks ago, someone just gave it to me for free at a concert!

You're a brave explorer and I respect your resolve in doing this. I'm glad you're able to get some good advice from somewhere, even if it is just a silly internet forum. I like the idea of a practice run, and perhapse planning on combining all the elements you have in mind in the future (the trip into nature and the psychadelics) once you are a bit more comfortable and experienced with them by themselves, in turn. Good luck.

Thank you all for the advice and Link
I'll definitely look up side effects and take precautions before trying any drugs. The possible seems less and less possible however.
And there will be no practice run for me

My hubby can be overly protective (usually, rightfully so lol such as in this case). He knows I'm going to the Farm for three days but he thinks it's only to ween myself off cigarettes (which I AM going to do).
I have *literally* no friends. The only people I talk to is my kids, my hubby, and my shrink (once every other week)... and my parents etc maybe on a monthly basis.
And then, of course, there are the good people of DV, but I can't really carry you guys out into the woods with me

I have an extremely restrictive budget. If I succeed in quitting smoking, I'll have more money to play with though.
I don't know of any dealers personally. And I'm too cautious to seek anyone out- what if they're actually a cop? Or what if they give me crap or something laced and dangerous?
Which is why the Mimosa is so appealing to me. It's been my favorite flower since I was 13 years old or so. And then I discovered a couple/few years back about it's use as a psychedelic. But not by itself, it turns out

Regarding my Quest, however, I think I'll be fine. I'll stay close to the property line which is about a 30-60 minute hike. If I get sick or spooked, I can easily leave. If I fall and break something and can't leave, I'll be easy to find.
I'm going to bring plenty of water but if hunger begins to debilitate me, the earth offers sustenance I can easily identify and find. I'll also bring some glucose tablets for emergency use only.
I'm intimately familiar with hunger pangs and solitude though so I should be a-okay in those regards.

It's very silly but the one thing I'm worried about being without are my hand wipes I'm not a germaphobe in the traditional sense. I just LOATHE the feeling of my hands and feet feeling dirty or sticky. I ALWAYS carry a hand wipe. I'm more anxious about being without those than I am anything else including my smokes. And I smoke about 2 packs a day

I'll be your friend, Zhaylin!

Let's see...you could probably get Salvia from a local smoke shop. According to wiki, it's legal in WV. Price wise, it would be $20-30 for a goodly amount.

I'll stop talking about drugs now.

Something to consider... iodine tablets are much easier to carry than water.

hehe, why thank you CMind I'll definitely have to look into that!! By smoke shop, do you mean a Tobacco/Cigarette store? We have a couple in town but I've never seen anything unusual in them (like Salvia). I'll probably have to go to a bigger city, but it's definitely do-able!!

Indie, yeah. I do have to look into that more before I leave. A person typically needs to drink what- a gallon of a water a day? More if they're active or if it's very hot? I've already been trying to envision myself carrying 3 gallons into the woods It's supposed to rain on at least one of those days so I could always catch and drink some rain water too. There is a creek/stream in the area, but it's usually dried out this time of year. What water I'll find in it will likely be stagnant and not at all drinkable.
But in any case, I wont die of thirst either if worse comes to worse.
Is it cheating to bring gum or tictacs with me? I'm often partially dehydrated. I tend to stupidly ignore my thirst and just suck on a mint for dry mouth.

Oh yeah, is it also cheating to bring toilet paper lol? Ahhhh, the comforts of civilization....

Smoke shop is what I call them, it may not be the correct term. But basically it's a shop that sells smoking paraphernalia like pipes, bongs, papers, that kind of stuff. They usually have salvia hidden behind the counter if you ask for it. To smoke salvia you're also going to need a pipe or bong (if you're strapped for cash you can make a bong out of a plastic bottle and some tin foil) and you'll need a lighter, preferably one with a blue flame. Salvia apparently requires a fairly hot flame to smoke. Although you may get away with a regular lighter, I'm not sure.

The process of smoking the salvia is a little involved so you should look that up on youtube or something. It's easy to find instructions for that sort of thing.

Also, if you want to go another route and you can get your hands on an actual salvia plant, you can chew up the leaves and let them sit in your mouth for like 15 minutes then spit them out. This gives a longer but less intense trip, or so they say. The salvia plant, or at the very least the seeds, can be mail ordered. Contrary to popular belief, there's actually not much risk in ordering things in the mail. But now I'm rambling.

Salvia is an incredibly intense experience. I wouldn't recommend letting ones spiritual beliefs ride on the outcome of a salvia trip. That's incredibly bad advice. I don't see what drugs have to do with this at all.

Originally Posted by PhilosopherStoned

Salvia is an incredibly intense experience. I wouldn't recommend letting ones spiritual beliefs ride on the outcome of a salvia trip. That's incredibly bad advice. I don't see what drugs have to do with this at all.

Intensity is the whole point. As I already said, a bad trip is a good thing in the long run. If you don't want a bad trip, then don't take the medicine! Because that's what we're talking about here, medicine. You don't take medicine to "get high".

Originally Posted by Zhaylin

I'm not sure exactly what I believe in anymore.
I had a deep religious conversation with my son yesterday, so intellectually, I believe in the Bible and in (more specifically) the teaching of Jehovah's Witnesses.
But purely on a spiritual/emotional (?) level, I'm drawn to different paths.
Such beliefs cannot co-exist within me. I've tried for years.

I think that says it all. You have your intellect struggling against your heart. Might as well get the unpleasantries out of the way and be honest. As I know that you know (you've said it before), you're intellect is not the sharpest tool in the shed. Your heart on the other hand seems to be made of gold. You are one of the kindest and gentlest souls that I've ever run across online or in the real world. The relationship with the divine/transcendant is one of the most important things in our life as it colors every other aspect of our lives. There are all kinds of people saying all kinds of things, for all kinds of reasons, to come between us and our own, personal, direct relationship with transcendance. It's important that we use our best tools to cut through that and see existence for what it is.

I think that your heart is your best tool here, not your intellect. So I would go with that.

And the fact that you are even considering using hallucingens to go on a vision quest indicates that, deep down, you've already abondoned your faith in a literal interpretation of the Bible. Good riddance to it as well. Enjoy your new freedom.

Originally Posted by cmind

Intensity is the whole point. As I already said, a bad trip is a good thing in the long run. If you don't want a bad trip, then don't take the medicine! Because that's what we're talking about here, medicine. You don't take medicine to "get high".

When somebody is at this kind of spiritual cross-roads, it's important to think/feel things out with a calm mind/heart. The introduction of a drug (please spare me the hippie pretenses) as powerful as salvia adds an element of randomness that will more likely than not be harmful. Especially when the subconcious grasps for symbols and interpretations of said symbols that come from a long background of one particular religious system and the person in question has deep feelings of guilt and inadequacy stemming from said religion. That's how the mind works on trips. I think that tripping is great but not in this context.

cmind,
Have you done Salvia before?
As someone who has done Salvia multiple times, I would have to agree PhilosopherStoned.

Not only is Salvia incredibly intense, it can also be extremely terrifying. While this experience has its place, I would not recommend it to someone who has never experienced psychedelics before. It sounds to me like Zhaylin is looking to for an introspective, reflective journey. I can not see how Salvia affords this. The trip is so short, how can any reflection take place? Smoking salvia fully engulfs you in an alien world, than yanks you back out before you can even process what is happening. Plus, the amount of terror you can feel under Salvia's influence is easier to deal with if you are already familiar with psychedelic journeys.

Zhaylin,
If you research Salvia and still feel this is the entheogen you would like to start with, I would be happy to give you more advice on it. (First of all, smoking it really isn't that involved or complicated and you can use a regular lighter.) Again, you do need a sober sitter (or at least an experienced psychedelic user taking it with you) with this or any other hallucinogen, especially your first time. As for your earlier worry about purchasing something "laced", this really shouldn't be a problem for psilocybin or LSD. Psilocybin would be safer, because you can easily take a very small amount, then take more later if you want to increase your trip. LSD is riskier, you can't be sure what your getting in a dose, and one tab can easily be too much for someone. If you are planning on doing your vision quest alone, it might be better to leave psychedelics out of the mix this time. I'm not trying to discourage you from the vision quest at all, but I worry about the safety of your plan. Even if your planning on fasting, you should still bring enough food just in case. Instead of pure fasting, a better idea might be to eat light and simple, more of like a cleanse. Everyone is different, and hunger certainly affects me more than most people since I am hypoglycemic, but I think hunger could actually impair your quest. As for water, bring more than you think you will need. 3 gallons a day sounds reasonable to me. Is there no running water where you are going? If this is the case, also factor in bathing and cleaning for water use. I'm no wilderness expert, but I do camp often, and have been camping in extreme desert environments far from civilization. Feel free to ask me any questions on what supplies you should bring.

Another thought, what about trying meditation or shamanic drumming during this quest? You can easily find tapes of shamanic drumming online as well as guides on what to do while listening to the drumming.

Also, one more link:
IAmShaman This site has Salvia, Dream Herbs, Morning Glory Seeds, etc. should you choose to go that route.

Sorry, if this all came off as rambling...

Thank you for the laugh and the kind words PhilosopherStoned as well as your experiences and advice

Thank you as well, Hermine
This first trip will definitely be drug free. Not even any meds or cigarettes

I can't bring any food with me. I am very undisciplined. If I have anything readily available, I will eat it. I also wanted to bring my DSi to take pictures, but I know I'd be too tempted to play the games that are installed on it. So I'll be leaving it behind as well.

I'm not taking any clothes. I'm going to wear a flowing skirt I am extremely comfortable it. When I walk or climb etc, I tie the edges around my waste so I don't trip on it.
I'll wear leggings underneath it. For a shirt, I'll be wearing a tank top and something long over it. I'll also bring my Scottevest, which is a match to this Travel Jacket, Hidden Pockets, Revolution Plus, Lightweight:SCOTTEVEST, INC./SeV one, but lighter.
I own no other shoes than my sandals Walmart.com: Earth Spirit - Women's Juniper Sling Back Sandals: Shoes. So I'll wear those with socks and bring extra socks in case my feet get wet.

The area I'll be traveling doesn't have much overgrowth (the trees are too thick). I won't have to worry about stepping into weeds full of snakes When I'm climbing, I have to take my shoes off anyhow no matter what they are.

I'm not too worried about bathing or washing my hair. I will take my hand wipes though. I don't want to make myself too uncomfortable and I'll also bring a roll of toilet paper.

I'll have glucose tablets in case my blood sugar bottoms out dangerously. My first aid kit will contain a sewing kit, bandages, super glue.
I need to remember to buy a flashlight.

The creek/river will be low or dry in most areas. I wont drink the water but if I find myself starving to death, I can easily find frogs and crawfish there. It seems locusts are out this year and if not locusts, there are large grasshoppers
And again, I wont be horribly far from help.

Water is going to be a pain to carry, but it's a necessary evil I guess. I don't know how I survived when I ran away when about 14 years old. I was gone for at least 10 days. I bought a large bottle of Coke on my way to the spot in the woods I stayed in. I also bought Seltzer water by mistake but refused to drink it after one sip lol. I did eat a cactus for the water by the end. All I had to eat were strawberry gummies and Crackle candy bars lol But it was still one of the best memories of my life. I slept on the branch of a tree the first night, then built a camouflaged lean-to for the rest of my adventure. I lived in Florida then but the temps dropped to the 30's-40's and I refused to build a fire because a major road was pretty much right beside me.
If I could do it then, for that long, with the little rations I had, I can definitely do it now. (That's what I keep telling myself anyhow).

2 nights and 3 days is as long as this quest will last. But I wont be beside a major road this time, with a military base on the other side. No matter how rare and unlikely, I could encounter bears, mountain lions, wild dogs, snakes. Ah yes... I have a bear bell. I'll dig that out and attach it to my bag... I should also buy mosquito repellent. I guess I should also bring a strong antihistamine just in case I react badly to a sting or bite. I'm not allergic to anything that I know, but neither was my step-dad and now he has to carry a kit with him for bee stings...

What else? A lighter in a ziplock bag... a compass with my attached whistle.. any other suggestion?