Thread: Should pedophiles use lucid dreaming to live out their fantasies?

mfw this whole thread

Originally Posted by Puffin

I say no. If you mean the actual definition of pedophile, it means they're already mentally unstable (there's obviously something different in the "wiring upstairs"), so it'd be dangerous to even let them try it in their dreams. They could get ideas, or it could make them want the real thing more.

Originally Posted by JustDream

Not unless they're behind bars for life, then I could care less what they do in their dreams. I just think it would tempt them to go for the real thing even more - as someone else mentioned.

However, I think they should try to be cured/healed of their illness and if that's not possible, as much as I hate to say it - they should be put to rest. If that sounds harsh, just imagine how you would feel if one of them touched your kid.

If I had super powers, my first priority in this world would be to seek & destroy people harming children!

These discussions are becoming so overwhelmingly insulting to me that it's too painful to even make counter arguments at all this bullshit. (I'm not just talking about the two quotes, although they are good examples)
The only thing I can manage to say is thank you, Mario92, for providing some sense in here.

EDIT: First batch of rage.

Originally Posted by apsinvo

I vote no. Can we agree that 'pedophilia' is 'negative craving/addictive behavior'? It shouldn't be lived out in the dream, or should I say 'indulged' in the dream - this will only increase desensitization and further unconscious cravings for gratification. The question is the same as asking, is it OK for a pedophile to sit at home watching 2 hours of kiddie porn every night, in perfect 3d all-immersing-experience home cinema, as long as he's not out on the street affecting kids? No, because the next morning, pedophilia will seem 'a bit less wrong' to him. If a pedophile wants to use LD to live out certain experiences, perhaps examining the cravings, re-living past experiences, etc, in a safe environment and to find liberation - that's a fantastic idea - I wish him every success and happiness. Getting stuck in LDs with some kind of addition is just as bad in LDs as it is in RL - arguably worse, and will lead you further down the path of greed and misery. There's never enough. The only option is to use dreaming as a way up and out, not down!

I've had many absolutely amazing, 'wow' lucid dreams. The first time I flew and had good control over it for example was incredible - I also had perfect memory of the entire 2 minute LD. As I walked through the mall the next day, I kept smiling with ever such a strong urge to try and push up with my left foot and fly as I had in the LD - fortunately I didn't try! I even felt completely different, floaty and light, and have believed that it was entirely possible to just fly there and then. Does anyone really want a guy walking through the mall who just spent an hour early that morning in a dream molesting children? I can only imagine the dreamer's uncontrollable urge to continue what had been absolutely acceptable and without any consequence in the dream.

Yay for sarcasm:
I vote no. Can we agree that 'violence' is 'negative craving/addictive behavior'? It shouldn't be lived out in the dream, or should I say 'indulged' in the dream - this will only increase desensitization and further unconscious cravings for gratification. The question is the same as asking, is it OK for a violent person to sit at home playing 2 hours of grand theft auto every night, in perfect 3d all-immersing-experience home cinema, as long as he's not out on the street killing people? No, because the next morning, violence will seem 'a bit less wrong' to him. If a violent person wants to use LD to live out certain experiences, perhaps examining the cravings, re-living past experiences, etc, in a safe environment and to find liberation - that's a fantastic idea - I wish him every success and happiness. Getting stuck in LDs with some kind of addition is just as bad in LDs as it is in RL - arguably worse, and will lead you further down the path of greed and misery. There's never enough. The only option is to use dreaming as a way up and out, not down!

I've had many absolutely amazing, 'wow' lucid dreams. The first time I flew and had good control over it for example was incredible - I also had perfect memory of the entire 2 minute LD. As I walked through the mall the next day, I kept smiling with ever such a strong urge to try and push up with my left foot and fly as I had in the LD - fortunately I didn't try! I even felt completely different, floaty and light, and have believed that it was entirely possible to just fly there and then. Does anyone really want a guy walking through the mall who just spent an hour early that morning in a dream molesting children? I can only imagine the dreamer's uncontrollable urge to continue what had been absolutely acceptable and without any consequence in the dream.

I think that's just you. What the fuck, man? Get a grip on reality.

EDIT2:

Originally Posted by Jakob

It is harmless to the point until it starts feeding your desires to try it out in real life. Thinking itself is harmless, but thinking can lead to wishing, and wishing can lead to plotting.

What makes you think this happens? This is a complete assumption.

I have nothing against homosexuals (for example) who have intercourse with consenting adults, as long as they do not try to force their lifestyle onto others. Pedophiles however, are not in the same category as homosexuals.

Durrr, stockpile argument. A similarity was provided, and you went "They are not the same!". Well that's original.
The example was perfectly reasonable. There was a time when people thought that homosexuality was a disease that could be cured. They tried, it didn't work.
No matter how different you want homosexuality and pedophilia to be, it doesn't change the fact that none of them can be cured.

I never said there is harm in having a fantasy, but the question is, who guarantees it will only remain a fantasy? Do you really think all the pedophiles in the world just started to abuse children without having any fantasies prior to these acts? What happens if the "lucid pedophile" starts getting more and more into it, and wishing every night to rape a kid in his lucid dream? He forms an addiction, and it's "OK" as long as it's a fantasy, but what if he starts having a dry spell with lucid dreams? What if he starts having insomnia and gets cut off from his pedo-dream-world for a longer period?

Same assumption as before. There is no proof that fantasies lead to some form of addiction that leads to action.

If he is mentally stable nothing bad should happen, but what if he isn't?

Then THAT is the problem. The fantasies are not the problem, but the fact that he is not mentally stable is a problem.

I am "bending people to my arbitrary whims" because I do not encourage pedophilic fantasies? Perhaps I am having this discussion right now with someone who has such fantasies themselves.

nice argument sir

Would you let a man who on regular basis has intercourse with children in his dreams babysit your kid?

If a babysitter regularly dreams about intercourse with children, I think it is safe to assume that he would never tell anyone about it.
So from that, I think it is also safe to assume that there are plenty of babysitters who are doing their job perfectly well, and dream about having intercourse with children regularly.

EDIT3:

Please don't twist what I said. Among pedophiles are also decent people, and I have never denied that. They control their desires as much as they can, and would never attempt to abuse a child. The question is are the majority of pedophiles decent people, statistically speaking? The answer is no, according to hundreds of studies and statistics.

I am one, and I don't think I appear on any studies or statistics. Hmm. Well, I suppose I am the only pedophile in the world that those statistics haven't taken in account... Right?
The answer to your question is yes, according to logic. Of course you can go into a prison, collect all the people who meet the criteria for pedophilia and conclude "Great scott, it appears that 100% of them have committed a crime"

As a side note, I have heard differently about the statistics you have. 95% of child abuse cases by pedophiles? I can't provide a source, but I feel I must point out that that is not what I've heard.

If he really would, then he is either a complete idiot, or a pedophile himself. I don't see another explanation.

you are a master at argumentation

EDIT4:

“The average pedophile will victimize 244 children in their lifetime,

What the fuck? First I was gonna make a joke something like "Wow, I have some work to do then", but then I was just overtaken by a feeling of "How the fuck is that even possible?"

EDIT5:

Originally Posted by WhatIsX

lol @ all the pedo statistics... like all pedos are going to admit they are

The one thing that Jakob does not think about is this.
All those statistics only ask sex offenders. There are thousands and thousands of pedophiles that nobody knows about, either because they're ashamed of it, because they know of the consequences if anybody knew, or just because it's irrelevant. That alone completely cripples and destroys any statistics.

I luv you, Maeni. :3

No kids getting sexually harrased or even further = Gr8God doesn't care

No I luv you Mario :3
Every time I copied a new set of quotes to rage at, when I was done I would scroll down and see an infinitely more cool-headed and rational set of arguments by you.
I cannot keep my cool here, so I really appreciate that you're able to be the voice of reason here <3

OP/others act like pedos are some kind of animals. They're human too, and just because they have a desire that society frowns upon doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to have their fantasies. Yes, they should be able to dream about molesting children, and anything else they want to dream about. Who's right is it to tell anyone that they can't dream, whether it be something you approve of or not?

Originally Posted by celestialelixir

OP/others act like pedos are some kind of animals. They're human too, and just because they have a desire that society frowns upon doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to have their fantasies. Yes, they should be able to dream about molesting children, and anything else they want to dream about. Who's right is it to tell anyone that they can't dream, whether it be something you approve of or not?

Bingo. Trying to justify otherwise is just trying to break other peoples rights. Who cares if the person is dreaming about it? "OOh, it might encourage him/her to act out the fantasies IRL!!!11 zomg!". What? It does not matter at all if he / she dreams about it or not here, it is not your place to decide which may or may not increase the temptation for the person. If it increases the temptation, it's still none of your business. It's that persons choice if he / she decides to go out and attack children. It is not the result of him / her dreaming about it. It's the result of the choice made by that person to attack that chlid, and that's that. There is a possibility that some motivation came out of dreaming about it, but it doesn't matter, the person still has a choice to make on whether or not to attack the children.

It's actions, not thoughts/dreams, that matter.

pe·do·phile/ˈpedəˌfīl/
Noun: A person who is sexually attracted to children.

Just to clarify for those suggesting rape constantly.

“The average pedophile will victimize 244 children in their lifetime, according to the Massachusetts Children’s Trust Fund, a child advocacy group working to prevent child abuse and neglect.” http://www.aninchfrommurder.com/blog...ge_follows.php

No, seriously, what the fuck?
Initially I just wrote it off and didn't think more of it because it was just so rediculous. But then I thought about it.
Now I'm really curious. Where the fuck do they have this from? Is it a bad joke? Do they really think they can make people believe that the average pedophile will molest 244 (TWO HUNDRED) children? Or do they mean something else? Some argue that you will victimize a child by looking at child pornography. Is that what they mean? Sounds a little more realistic that way. A little.

But if they actually mean, truly and physically victimizing them personally, then that is just insulting to everybody's intelligence. I just checked with a little google search; Josef Fritzl abused six children. Six.
Maybe it's some kind of Hitler deal? You know how they say that Hitler killed 5 million jews? I mean, he didn't really kill them, he was just responsible for it. So is there some kind of wacky pedophile out there, rounding up children and performing some kind of pedophile holocaust? That would explain the insane average.

I'm seeing a trend of statistical contradiction here, for example, the mayo-clinic says 240 average, other research studies say 140... the "Abel, Mittleman, and Becker" one says non-incest average is 282, while most other sites that make a distinction between child molester and pedo say that 60% of the cases are incest-like, and the minority is on strangers. So... yeah, either the ones with the huge numbers are not making a distinction (doubt it) or they have HUGE bias towards pedo people. Not to mention their numbers pale in comparison to the child-molesting cases of church-cases in numbers, and most priests said they are not pedophilic. Yup, can't trust the data like this.

Edit: Forgot to mention, mayo-clinic study also says 95% are pedos, while interviews with child-molester somehow say that only 7% identify themselves as such?

I'm on the side of letting your mind do what it needs to do. I have worked out problems this way.
One could say that it would tempt them more.
but one could just as easily say that it could nullify temptation.
When you add the fact that our minds are the one true thing we have that is close to being free (even though we are all brainwashed), it boils down to freedom.

If they cannot "cure" or "let go" this unhealthy obsession, then..Yes. Most certainly yes.

Whenever possible these people should be helped to find the root of this twisted desire and "set it straight" again.
If a pedophile does not want to/cannot let go of his twisted desires to violate children, then let him violate Dream Character-children, rather than actual children.

Poor dream children. lol

People can do whatever they want in their dreams. Sometimes people become attracted to something because of it's illicit, illegal, and dangerous nature. Maybe if they knew they could do it in a dream whenever they wanted, it would lose some of it's appeal.

Lol, it bothers me to see this topic on top of general discussion for the past few days... Do whatever you want in your dreams....

Originally Posted by Maeni

Durrr, stockpile argument. A similarity was provided, and you went "They are not the same!". Well that's original.
The example was perfectly reasonable. There was a time when people thought that homosexuality was a disease that could be cured. They tried, it didn't work.
No matter how different you want homosexuality and pedophilia to be, it doesn't change the fact that none of them can be cured.

No, that's definitely not a fact, but an opinion. Some claim it can be cured, some claim it can't be cured. You can easily find sources for each position.

Same assumption as before. There is no proof that fantasies lead to some form of addiction that leads to action.

What kind of proof do you want for such things? Fantasies will lead some people to actions, and on other people they won't have any effect. As I said, it is not a problem for stable people who can control themselves.

Then THAT is the problem. The fantasies are not the problem, but the fact that he is not mentally stable is a problem.

You just realized that, huh?

nice argument sir

It wasn't an argument but a simple conclusion.

If a babysitter regularly dreams about intercourse with children, I think it is safe to assume that he would never tell anyone about it.
So from that, I think it is also safe to assume that there are plenty of babysitters who are doing their job perfectly well, and dream about having intercourse with children regularly.

Again, dancing around the question just like your buddy Super Mario. But of course you will answer it's okay, because you are one of them.

I am one, and I don't think I appear on any studies or statistics. Hmm. Well, I suppose I am the only pedophile in the world that those statistics haven't taken in account... Right?
The answer to your question is yes, according to logic. Of course you can go into a prison, collect all the people who meet the criteria for pedophilia and conclude "Great scott, it appears that 100% of them have committed a crime"

You just can't seem to grasp the fact that statistically speaking pedophiles are not to be trusted.

As a side note, I have heard differently about the statistics you have. 95% of child abuse cases by pedophiles? I can't provide a source, but I feel I must point out that that is not what I've heard.

Yes, of course, you have heard differently.

you are a master at argumentation

And you are a master of idiocy.

What the fuck? First I was gonna make a joke something like "Wow, I have some work to do then", but then I was just overtaken by a feeling of "How the fuck is that even possible?"

Wanting to make a joke about abusing children sexually really shows how kind-hearted and loving you people are. Furthermore, why does this number sound unbelieveable to you? Let's say a pedophile lives to the age of 80. Why is it unreasonable to believe that he can victimize 244 children?

The one thing that Jakob does not think about is this.
All those statistics only ask sex offenders. There are thousands and thousands of pedophiles that nobody knows about, either because they're ashamed of it, because they know of the consequences if anybody knew, or just because it's irrelevant. That alone completely cripples and destroys any statistics.

And there are so many victims who do not speak out for many years. Some even live their whole life and die without telling anyone.

Murder is bad. I'm sure we'd all kill someone in our lucids if we would have the chance. Does that make you a murderer? Are you going to murder someone because of it?

Even if you said yes, how do you plan on stopping it?

Originally Posted by Mario92

We've already established I don't view it as a disease or mental impairment. Your argument is invalid.

It is not relevant that "you" don't view it as a disease.

"Mental health professionals agree that pedophilia should never be considered normal but is a disease." Dr. Herbert Wagemaker, a biological psychiatrist who is the author of many books and videos on mental illness

"The International Classification of Diseases (ICD) defines pedophilia as a "disorder of adult personality and behaviour" in which there is a sexual preference for children of prepubertal or early pubertal age.[8] The term has a range of definitions as found in psychiatry, psychology, the vernacular, and law enforcement." Pedophilia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Mental health professionals agree that pedophilia should never be considered normal, because it is truly a disease. None of the things that make homosexuality a normal variation of human sexuality apply to pedophilia." Pedophilia (child molestation) Information on MedicineNet.com

So the child molesters are likely to repeatedly molest children. Shocker.

Pedophilic child molesters, yes.

There are those who aren't pedophiles but will molest a child. Pedophilic child molesters outnumber them.

The information you cited applies only to pedophiles who are sex offenders. It does not take into scope the harmless pedos.

I showed you that many pedophiles are indeed sex offenders. Keep in mind that there are many kids who never speak out about what happened to them.

No, you showed only that pedophiles comprise the majority of child molesters, not that most pedophiles are child molesters. You fail at statistics.

I never claimed that most pedophiles are child molesters. I claimed that many pedophiles are not to be trusted, and backed it up with sources. You have to this day not produced one single citation.

And what of the pedophiles who keep it to themselves all the years? Due to increasing societal pressures on them (mostly from the likes of you), many are incredibly ashamed of their attraction.

I have nothing against those who have not acted upon their fantasies. Those who have however, I have no sympathy for. None, period. You abuse a child, you deserve the death penalty. And regarding these others who haven't acted upon their fantasies (yet), no offense, but stay away from my children.

My case is that dreams have no impact on reality, and pedophiles have a right to dream as they see fit. Trying to make them dream of something else or make them feel like shit for dreaming what they do is arbitrary bullshit of the finest quality.

They do have the right to dream as they see fit. Where have I ever claimed they should be forbidden from dreaming about these things? I only said it shouldn't be encouraged as some sort of solution. I said the first thing a pedophile with lucid dreaming skills should do is attempt to cure himself through lucid dreams. If he really tries and is unable to do so, then I have no problem with him dreaming about his fantasies. Of course, they would have to remain nothing more than fantasies.

How is this even relevant? Obviously a pedophile who molests a child is not in their right mind. Arguing with someone who is deeply emotionally disturbed and traumatized will solve nothing.

Many of them are not in their right mind, obviously.

Says the man who uses statistics to back up his argument.

Ok?

And I argue that there is nothing an individual "should" or should not dream about. It is their mind, their rights, and their privacy.

Yes, if a pedophile is mentally stable and would never think about acting upon his fantasies, and if he is able to completely control his urges, what he dreams about is not important to me either.

Look, more statistics. More statistics that again take survey of an incredible minority. More statistics that you are brandishing about with absolutely no idea how to use them.

453 pedophiles being responsible for over 67,000 molestations means nothing to you?

As I've said, I don't give two shits what he dreams about. All that counts is his actions. As long as his record turns up clean, why the hell not? Would it be any worse than taking my chances on some other random stranger, with no clue about what he dreams of or who he touches? At least I know this guy is a pedo. If anything happens to my child, I know where to look. No matter who you hire, you take a chance. You're inviting a stranger into your home. The only reason I'd decline this guy is because I don't know him and therefore don't trust him. (Of course, if I did know him and could trust him, then certainly.) I'd rather go with the neighborhood high school kid with the 3.5 GPA that I've known for years, just because I can trust him more.

But if he constantly dreams about it and desires these things, you would still have no problem with him playing with your child when they're alone? Are you kidding me?

*sigh* more ad hominem. A surefire mark that you're running out of valid arguments, and so resort to name calling and jibes at my person, instead of my arguments. Grow up.

Lol? The image in your signature and your failed attempts to defend pedophiles just give me the feeling that you are one of them.

Originally Posted by SKA

If they cannot "cure" or "let go" this unhealthy obsession, then..Yes. Most certainly yes.

Whenever possible these people should be helped to find the root of this twisted desire and "set it straight" again.
If a pedophile does not want to/cannot let go of his twisted desires to violate children, then let him violate Dream Character-children, rather than actual children.

That is exactly what I am saying this whole time.

Originally Posted by Mario92

I luv you, Maeni. :3

Originally Posted by Maeni

No I luv you Mario :3

Originally Posted by duke396

if a pedophile is molesting children in a dream instead of doing it in real life, that's obviously favorable.

Yes, and due to the realism of lucid dreams, it is so close to the real thing, that they could continue to do it in their dream. Nothing can make you do something. It's lucid dreaming, not mind control.

Originally Posted by Dr.Rockso

What do you think? Should pedophiles use lucid dreaming to live out their fantasies?

No, I think they should fuck real children. *sigh*

Originally Posted by Jakob

"Mental health professionals agree that pedophilia should never be considered normal but is a disease." Dr. Herbert Wagemaker, a biological psychiatrist who is the author of many books and videos on mental illness

"The International Classification of Diseases (ICD) defines pedophilia as a "disorder of adult personality and behaviour" in which there is a sexual preference for children of prepubertal or early pubertal age.[8] The term has a range of definitions as found in psychiatry, psychology, the vernacular, and law enforcement." Pedophilia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Mental health professionals agree that pedophilia should never be considered normal, because it is truly a disease. None of the things that make homosexuality a normal variation of human sexuality apply to pedophilia." Pedophilia (child molestation) Information on MedicineNet.com

It is completely normal to be attracted to someone who has hit puberty. Why do you think there are obvious signs of puberty? Because it shows they are ready to start having children, or fertilising eggs.

Just because a person is grown older, doesn't mean their taste in people has changed to older people too. It's perfectly normal.

And no government agency or psychologist who is receiving funding is ever going to admit that pedophilia is normal.

You see this all the time. As soon as someone is free of their constraints within a certain company or establishment, they come out with the truth.

Anyway, kind of off-topic a bit.

The point is, try to stop someone from dreaming about fucking children.
End of Discussion.

Originally Posted by Jakob

It is not relevant that "you" don't view it as a disease.

"Mental health professionals agree that pedophilia should never be considered normal but is a disease." Dr. Herbert Wagemaker, a biological psychiatrist who is the author of many books and videos on mental illness

"The International Classification of Diseases (ICD) defines pedophilia as a "disorder of adult personality and behaviour" in which there is a sexual preference for children of prepubertal or early pubertal age.[8] The term has a range of definitions as found in psychiatry, psychology, the vernacular, and law enforcement." Pedophilia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Mental health professionals agree that pedophilia should never be considered normal, because it is truly a disease. None of the things that make homosexuality a normal variation of human sexuality apply to pedophilia." Pedophilia (child molestation) Information on MedicineNet.com

That's a nice set of opinions.

Pedophilic child molesters, yes.

There are those who aren't pedophiles but will molest a child. Pedophilic child molesters outnumber them.

Once again, what a shocker.

I showed you that many pedophiles are indeed sex offenders. Keep in mind that there are many kids who never speak out about what happened to them.

You showed nothing of the sort. All you showed was that, of child molestation cases, pedophiles make up most of the offenders. That DOES NOT MEAN THAT MOST PEDOPHILES OR EVEN A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER ARE CHILD MOLESTERS. Comprehend this. Understand this. Learn about the statistics you cite before claiming they support a claim they do not.

I never claimed that most pedophiles are child molesters. I claimed that many pedophiles are not to be trusted, and backed it up with sources. You have to this day not produced one single citation.

You're making the positive claim. You have not backed it up. You backed up an entirely separate claim (two of them, in fact: 1) that pedophiles compromise the majority of child molestation offenders, 2) that pedophilic child molesters are more likely to be repeat offenders). I'll say it again: you have yet to show that "many" pedophiles are dangerous. It is the incredible claim. Burden of proof rests on your shoulders.

I have nothing against those who have not acted upon their fantasies. Those who have however, I have no sympathy for. None, period. You abuse a child, you deserve the death penalty. And regarding these others who haven't acted upon their fantasies (yet), no offense, but stay away from my children.

Progress. The death penalty is a separate debate, but those who act in reality to harm children, do deserve punishment.

They do have the right to dream as they see fit. Where have I ever claimed they should be forbidden from dreaming about these things? I only said it shouldn't be encouraged as some sort of solution. I said the first thing a pedophile with lucid dreaming skills should do is attempt to cure himself through lucid dreams. If he really tries and is unable to do so, then I have no problem with him dreaming about his fantasies. Of course, they would have to remain nothing more than fantasies.

That's my problem: that they should try to "cure" themselves before doing as they please. Silly bullshit.

Many of them are not in their right mind, obviously.

You've yet to show that.

Ok?

Nice rebuttal.

Yes, if a pedophile is mentally stable and would never think about acting upon his fantasies, and if he is able to completely control his urges, what he dreams about is not important to me either.

I don't care if he can or can't control his urges, has already molested children, is serving time behind bars, is waiting on death row, is insane, whatever. His dreams, his rights.

453 pedophiles being responsible for over 67,000 molestations means nothing to you?

We're arguing a general matter. That statistic is a survey of only convicted pedophilic child molesters (and a remarkably busy lot, at that). It speaks nothing of the general population we are discussing. It is entirely and utterly irrelevant. What's more, it is a dubious claim at best.

But if he constantly dreams about it and desires these things, you would still have no problem with him playing with your child when they're alone? Are you kidding me?

As I've said, dreams don't mean a goddamn thing. If I can trust this bro, I don't have a problem.

Lol? The image in your signature and your failed attempts to defend pedophiles just give me the feeling that you are one of them.

And it's official, you've run out of valid arguments. We can argue my sexuality all day long, but it will serve no purpose. You're not worth my time.

"Mental health professionals agree that pedophilia should never be considered normal but is a disease." Dr. Herbert Wagemaker, a biological psychiatrist who is the author of many books and videos on mental illness

"The International Classification of Diseases (ICD) defines pedophilia as a "disorder of adult personality and behaviour" in which there is a sexual preference for children of prepubertal or early pubertal age.[8] The term has a range of definitions as found in psychiatry, psychology, the vernacular, and law enforcement." Pedophilia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Mental health professionals agree that pedophilia should never be considered normal, because it is truly a disease. None of the things that make homosexuality a normal variation of human sexuality apply to pedophilia." Pedophilia (child molestation) Information on MedicineNet.com

Well then. Explain how you come upon this 'disease' and why many people have a -phillia in the world. See if you can find THAT number and tell me that they are all diseased.

They do have the right to dream as they see fit. Where have I ever claimed they should be forbidden from dreaming about these things? I only said it shouldn't be encouraged as some sort of solution. I said the first thing a pedophile with lucid dreaming skills should do is attempt to cure himself through lucid dreams. If he really tries and is unable to do so, then I have no problem with him dreaming about his fantasies. Of course, they would have to remain nothing more than fantasies.

Read my last post.

Lol? The image in your signature and your failed attempts to defend pedophiles just give me the feeling that you are one of them.

Ok. Let's pretend for a moment that he IS a pedophile. (I'm not saying you are), but wouldn't he have a better perspective on this than you? You cannot speak for them if you know nothing about how they think. You only supported him.

Mario92 pretty much got everything else down though.

Originally Posted by Jakob

No, that's definitely not a fact, but an opinion. Some claim it can be cured, some claim it can't be cured. You can easily find sources for each position.

Sure you can. The thing is that people have already tried. There's been tons of attempts to "cure" homosexuals. It never worked. All it ever achieved was making those people ashamed of themselves.
But either way, you're right. We don't actually know whether we can change people's sexualities. We just haven't found a way to do it yet.

What kind of proof do you want for such things? Fantasies will lead some people to actions, and on other people they won't have any effect. As I said, it is not a problem for stable people who can control themselves.

True, but you seem to be saying that pedophiles by definition are unstable people who cannot control themselves. That is as true as when Jack Thompson says that people will become violent people because they play video games. I think you're right that some people actually will become violent people from playing video games, and similarly, some pedophiles will become child molesters from their fantasies/pornography/dreams/talking with other pedophiles and so on. But you're accusing the wrong thing, you seem to be saying that people shouldn't have those lucid dreams because some people are mentally unstable enough that it will make them into rapists. But it's really not the lucid dream's fault, it's their mental instability.

You just realized that, huh?

You're the one who seems to say that it's the fantasy's fault for the pedophile's action, rather than his own mental instability.

It wasn't an argument but a simple conclusion.

It was an irrelevant comment. The only purpose it served was to insult the other person.
You're using a very convinient logic. Basically you concluded that he was a pedophile himself, and therefore his arguments are invalid.
Earlier you also stated that if he really had the opinions he had, he was either a complete idiot and/or needed to get his head checked.

Very, very convinient. You could use that towards any group of people and nobody would be able to disprove you.
"I hate black people, they're all criminals. Oh, you're defending black people? Then you're either black yourself, stupid or insane."
"I hate gay people, they're all gay. Oh, you're defending gays? Then you're either gay yourself, stupid or insane."
"I hate tall people, they're responsible for the holocaust. Oh, you're defending tall people? Then you're either tall yourself, responsible for the holocaust or insane."

See, you provided yourself a safe way around listening to any arguments. Can you not see that this is a flawed way to go about this discussion?

Again, dancing around the question just like your buddy Super Mario. But of course you will answer it's okay, because you are one of them.

Welp, if you want me to say it, I'll do it. I don't think I would let just any pedophile babysit my children. But you know, when you only know 1 detail about a person, your brain fills in the blanks. So of course you're not going to get a very good image of a person if the 1 detail you know is something that is commonly seen as very negative. Now if I knew the pedophile personally, and trusted him, then of course I would let him babysit my children.

You just can't seem to grasp the fact that statistically speaking pedophiles are not to be trusted.

The statistics are inaccurate. As I said, if you want to see how many pedophiles are good people, and how many are child molesters, you'd need to gather all the pedophiles. It's simply a fact that nobody have ever gathered all the pedophiles. Why is that a fact? Because I am one, and I have never been in a study. Sure, that's just 1 person, so it doesn't change the statistics in any significant way. But do you really think that there aren't more of that kind of people? We don't know how many pedophiles there are in the world, so we cannot make any real statistics.

Yes, of course, you have heard differently.

I admit, that comment wasn't an argument, I may be wrong.

And you are a master of idiocy.

I was merely sarcastically referring to your very clever and convinient logic that allows you to bypass any arguments thrown at you. Basically, anything me and Mario say, you can throw it right out the window because you've established a nice little system where, if we disagree with you, we're either stupid, insane or pedophiles.
"Anyone who disagrees with me are stupid"

Wanting to make a joke about abusing children sexually really shows how kind-hearted and loving you people are. Furthermore, why does this number sound unbelieveable to you? Let's say a pedophile lives to the age of 80. Why is it unreasonable to believe that he can victimize 244 children?

How do you imagine an average pedophile victimizes children? Do you think they daily kidnap a new kid? The vast majority of child molestation cases happen in families, and I think most families don't have 244 children.

Also, jumping to conclusions about my character and personality has no relevance.

And there are so many victims who do not speak out for many years. Some even live their whole life and die without telling anyone.

I am willing to believe that, but there's no way you can put a number to that, because, as you said yourself, they've never told anybody. You can guess all you like, but nothing will ever be statistically correct before you can gather any real data.