Thread: Deeper than REM?

Originally Posted by anotherdreamer

Vagaltone - I have been practicing dream yoga for a few years now, I keep trying to attain the clear light dream state or, luminous clarity. It is something that is a pretty big goal for me, and I have yet to even come close I wonder if anyone else reading this has?

Sure, but it is not all that impressive. I suppose the Buddhists think it is some supreme state. They like the idea of fleeing this realm and attempting to merge back into the unity. Yawn,,, oh sorry. I guess that is a whole separate issue. Try it out, it is a good goal, and certainly interesting. Can you really call it interesting though? When you get there, you are no longer you, so there is no you to be interested. Sorry, you got me side tracked. Anyways, here is a DJ entry on it,

05/26/12 Clear Light of the Mind-Yawn - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

Back to the OP. How can you get nREM lucids? Two ways can be used at first, and then later you just are able to observe almost anything during sleep, so nREM or REM makes no difference. The two easier methods? First, get awesome at stabilizing. Then in a normal REM lucid refuse to wake or loose the dream. Keep stabilizing, even if it leaves no time to play. Do what it takes to stay in the dream. REM only lasts so long, so if you stay lucid, it will shift into various nREM states. That is one way. The other is get really good at WILD. Not the WILD where you fall asleep and stay slightly aware for a couple minutes and must stumble on a good REM dream in that time. I mean the kind of deep meditation WILD that allows you to stay aware and truly aware, despite the fact that the body has fallen asleep. The kind of WILD that causes HH and HI on a big scale. Serious HH are taking place in nREM1. Yay! That means many of our members have already observed one level of nREM. In that state you can still feel your body slightly. If you stick with it, your bodily awareness will fall to perhaps 5% of its waking level. If REM does not hit, where are you? In nREM is a likely answer. The problem with having a lucid experience here is expectations. If you are watching for the standard REM kind of thing, it is not going to work.

Let me dig up a couple DJ entries to help you all see what I mean about how learning to LD in nREM can open up a whole new world of adventure,

Ok, this first one is an example of a purely nREM LD, and as you can see is still interesting and worth experiencing.

02/29/12 I Must be a Shadow WILD - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

And then there is these next two, which start in nREM and eventually REM starts. The reverse of this process would get one into nREM instead.

03/18/12 Flying snake and the Sputnick Harley WILD - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

08/14/12 WILD. Over an hour of nREM LD to get 10 minutes in REM only to fall prey to a FA - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views


Finally, as far as the idea that this kind of sleep is involved with memory consolidation and learning, that is 100% true. That is also why it can be uncomfortable and a burden to be lucid through. Trust me, maintaining lucidity through every phase of sleep can be exhausting. A lot of nREM stuff is repetitive to the extreme. It also is often something that refuses to be redirected. You may be stuck in a 1 minute long dream loop about something that you are studying at school, and have it repeat a few dozen times. I often use my skill at LD just to force myself to stop this kind of dreaming. I do not assume it is good for me to reject this form of dream, but my god, being aware during it is tiring. So, finally, here is a DJ entry to show what that is like,

09/15/12 DILD Burning Down My Work. - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views




Oh wait, let me add a thought about that study. This is why I try to get people to understand or believe that the meditation and yoga stuff is the only real way to master LDing. You are trying op physically change the neural pathways in your brain. My brain must be severely remodeled after so long. The stuff they are calling "lasting neuro-plastic changes in cortico-thalamic circuits" that is what my class is all about. Nice to see research into this.