Thread: Philosophical question: If you're dreaming you're having an LD are you actually having an LD?

Originally Posted by Sageous

Let me take a shot at this:

If you are unaware that you are dreaming about being lucid, then you are not lucid.

I think it's quite reasonable to look at it that way.

There's really no such thing as a dream within a dream (sorry, Inception fans!); it just happened that your dream content was about laying down and having a lucid.

Exactly. In the same way that when your dream content consists of you driving a car, it doesn't mean you actually are driving a car. So if your dream content is that of having a dream and getting lucid in it, you're not actually lucid.

OTOH, maybe it's a matter of definition. Maybe any dream in which you realize that what you're experiencing isn't your waking reality can be defined as an LD, even if you're seriously deluded about what your actual waking reality is.

Remembering the imagined place where you first lay down during your dream does not count as lucidity, it is merely a part of the overall "having a dream about getting lucid" plot you were experiencing... in other words, Zthread, only your Dream Character "you" was aware of the dream, as prescribed by your dreaming mind/unconscious; at no point did the actual Zthread realize that all of this was a dream. And, of course, what you experience as an unaware DC, no matter how lucid that DC thinks he is, doesn't count as lucidity.

I think that's a persuasive argument, Sageous.

Though Dolphin's answer back in post #2 pretty much covers things, here's another thought: If you were truly lucid in that dream, at any point, you would have known for sure that that desert compound was not real, and you would probably also remember where your sleeping body really is -- especially in this case, because that compound, and the cult, are about as large a red flag as could be flown for a person who is lucid to notice. This I think would be the case even in the most minimal of lucid states: even if you knew you were dreaming but failed to remember your sleeping body (which happens regularly in low-level LD's), you would still know that that compound -- and the place you dreamed about falling asleep -- were just part of the overall dream.

Great point! This gets back to the idea I mentioned a couple of posts ago that if you're fully aware, you should be able to do successful reality fact checks (RFCs). That is, you should be able to make a number of factually correct statements regarding your waking reality (e.g., your name, where you live, what the date is, where you're sleeping at the moment, what job you have, etc.). Really want to start doing RFCs during my LDs!

So, bottom line: Dreaming about being lucid happens all the time, especially to we dreamers who spend so much time talking about lucidity, and doing so does not count as lucidity. If (actual) waking-life self-awareness is not present, then you are not lucid, period.

Well argued! Great point about how people who are into LDing are likely to have dreams involving various aspects of lucidity without actually getting lucid.