Thread: Philosophical question: If you're dreaming you're having an LD are you actually having an LD?

Originally Posted by sivason

you can be lucid to various degrees. It may be a small observation like a thought while simply watching weird stuff and going, "this weird crap is just in my head, it is just dream stuff." It can be on the other end just like an advanced VR game with a completely realistic body you control while examining the elements of the setting and thinking,"ok, I am dreaming again, what were the goals of this months competition" and then being able to change any aspect of the dream or use super powers. Both are lucid dreams.

I agree with that.

Originally Posted by sivason

What is probably not a lucid dream is when you experience scenes where you say you are dreaming but it is just more plot to the dream and not an actual realization that it actually a dream. You can be confused as to the actual reality your body is in.

I definitely think you're making a valid point here, but I'm still not completely sure that couldn't be a form of lucidity. For example, suppose you're in a dream within a dream and you realize you're in a dream, but do not realize the dream you're in is a dream within a dream. So, one might say you're not really lucid, because you're just dreaming you're lucid.

However, suppose that in addition to realizing you're in a dream, you also take advantage of the situation to do the kinds of things you usually do during your regular LDs. For example, suppose you fly around, phase through walls, look at your hands to see if you have extra fingers, try to accomplish one or more of your LD dream goals, etc. If you do things like that, then your dream will certainly seem to be more like an LD than a regular dream.

In addition, suppose your brain state is closer to the brain state characteristic of LDs than the state characteristic of regular dreams. Then a scientist who happened to be monitoring your brain state would conclude that you're more likely to be having an LD than a regular dream. Of course, most of us aren't having our brain states monitored by scientists during our dreams, so this last point is mostly just theoretical. But that's OK, this whole discussion is mostly just theoretical.

Originally Posted by sivason

Say in the dream you are an alien and now you can tell it is a dream. You fail to remember you are a human on modern Earth, but you actually do realize that what is going on is a figment of your dreaming mind. That is still being lucid. sageous used the term "awareness" and that is the long and short of it. Aware it is a dream = lucid. A scene about dreaming with no real awareness is a good sign but not the actual goal.

Good example. I agree that that you'd be lucid in such a dream.