Thread: How to awaken during sleep for obe4u method / what to do mentally while awake

Originally Posted by luffy28

Hi,
I wanted to know if I could set an alarm after 7 and a half hours? The reason I"m asking is that I usually sleep from 9 pm to 10 am. This is for exploring the world of lucid dreaming technique. I also wanted to know if I could recall dreams only on Saturday and Sunday since those are the days I have off?

Thanks.

I think 7.5 hours is ideal for your alarm if you are going to be able to sleep at least 9 hours. I set mine for 7hours 20 minutes, as I only sleep 8 hours on work days it is not as ideal as it could be. I have the alarm repeat every 9 minutes for 4 times. I agree with MoonageDaydream about recall. I would attempt to recall at least a small portion of a dream every night. You want to make your brain realize it will be called upon to remember dreams and also develop neural paths for that.

There is also an algorithm for the indirect method here which might help:

https://phasetoday.com/indirect-meth...tific-journal/

Originally Posted by Summerlander

Yes, the free pdf used to be called School of Out-of-Body Travel and Michael Raduga included a couple of my phase experiences in the book—you'll probably find them in the newer version under the name 'Arlindo Batista, UK'. I still own the old hard copy.

The author is a friend of mine and I used to head the Phase Managing Department of the OOBE Research Center besides moderating the OBE4U forum.

Yes, by all means try out the alarm at those times as long as the continuous sound of the alarm doesn't interfere with the practice.

Have you downloaded the Phaser App? It gives you access to three very useful seminars by Michael Raduga, with a crystal clear English voiceover.

I just need to know how to awaken during sleep for step 2. I'm going to try to listen to an audio so I can awaken during sleep.

Thanks.

Originally Posted by Summerlander

There is also an algorithm for the indirect method here which might help:

https://phasetoday.com/indirect-meth...tific-journal/

Thanks. I'll look at it. Already downloaded it.

Originally Posted by sivason

I think 7.5 hours is ideal for your alarm if you are going to be able to sleep at least 9 hours. I set mine for 7hours 20 minutes, as I only sleep 8 hours on work days it is not as ideal as it could be. I have the alarm repeat every 9 minutes for 4 times. I agree with MoonageDaydream about recall. I would attempt to recall at least a small portion of a dream every night. You want to make your brain realize it will be called upon to remember dreams and also develop neural paths for that.

I never considered doing it every few minutes after the 7 hour mark. I'll try every 10 to 15 minutes.

Thanks.

Hi,
I wanted to know some advice on what I should mentally be thinking to awaken in order to try the cycling techniques? I also wanted to know if it's just as effective to try step 2 straight from sleep so I can awaken during the night in order to do the cycling techniques?

Thanks.

Originally Posted by luffy28

Hi,
I wanted to know some advice on what I should mentally be thinking to awaken in order to try the cycling techniques? I also wanted to know if it's just as effective to try step 2 straight from sleep so I can awaken during the night in order to do the cycling techniques?

Thanks.

It is best if you do not think. Relax and fall back to sleep. Stay aware by noticing the sensations happening and imagine you are dreaming. maybe picture yourself walking, or doing something common place or imagine flying, but that does not require thought. It takes practice.

Hi,
I wanted to know if I could sleep 7.5 hours? The reason I'm asking is that I usually sleep from 9 pm/10 pm to 9 am / 10 am.

Thanks.

Originally Posted by luffy28

Hi,
I wanted to know if I could sleep 7.5 hours? The reason I'm asking is that I usually sleep from 9 pm/10 pm to 9 am / 10 am.

Thanks.

Not sure what you are asking. 7.5 hours is a great point to start your attempts.

Originally Posted by sivason

Not sure what you are asking. 7.5 hours is a great point to start your attempts.

I was just asking if I could sleep 7.5 hours. Which is 7.5 hours after sleep. I might try 8 hours because I tried 7.5 and still went back to sleep.

Thanks.

Originally Posted by MoonageDaydream

Hi Luffy,

I don't recommend an audio alarm for lucid dreaming. It has a tendency to destroy dream recall. I do recommend training yourself to wake up several times a night to record your dreams in a journal. An easy technique to set a pattern is to drink a lot of water before bed, and after each awakening.

If you must use an alarm, I recommend a watch that does a very light beep sound or vibrates. Something not too intrusive. I also recommend trying to record as many dreams as you can throughout the week - although I know how hard it gets during the work week. If you just do it on the weekends, your recall will suffer, and you may find it difficult to remember your dreams. Even if it's just 1 dream a night, every night, that can make a big difference. For me, I prioritize dreaming and make sure I go to bed very early. Often around 9 pm, sometimes earlier! That way I give myself plenty of time to wake up, record dreams, even do a WBTB and still get enough sleep before work. It sounds like your schedule would allow for that, seeming as you get 13 hours of sleep a night (9pm-10am)?

Good luck!

I actually recalled two dreams last week using a music based alarm. I want to know what I should do for the obe4u technique along side the exploring the world of lucid dreaming technique. I have my alarm set for Mon-Thurs and try to attempt the obe4u technique from Fri-Sat. Anyone can answer not just the person I quoted.

Thanks.

Originally Posted by luffy28

I was just asking if I could sleep 7.5 hours. Which is 7.5 hours after sleep. I might try 8 hours because I tried 7.5 and still went back to sleep.

Thanks.

Hi, sorry, I am not sure what you are asking? If you mean can you do a WBTB after 7.5 hours, sure, if you are going to get 12 hours of sleep. You want to make sure you are still sleepy and capable of going back to sleep after your WBTB time period. If 7.5 hours isn't working for you, I wouldn't shift to 8 hours (although you can), personally, I would try a longer waking period. So if you stayed awake for 10 minutes, make it 15-20.

Originally Posted by luffy28

I actually recalled two dreams last week using a music based alarm. I want to know what I should do for the obe4u technique along side the exploring the world of lucid dreaming technique. I have my alarm set for Mon-Thurs and try to attempt the obe4u technique from Fri-Sat. Anyone can answer not just the person I quoted.

Thanks.

Which Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming technique are you using? I know he offers several.

One good technique to use with this obe4u method (which seems like a WBTB), is practicing a mental relaxation technique while doing your WBTB. So after your 7.5 hours of sleep, stay awake a bit. When you feel ready to go back to sleep, lay down and mentally focus your attention on every part of your body. In the book Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming, he calls it the "61 point relaxation technique". Start with your toes, then foot, then heel and ankle, move up to your calves, etc. Spend about 30 seconds on each spot, notice any sensations or discomfort/pain, and feel it until it relaxes, then shift to the next spot. This allows your body to relax while keeping your mind just a tiny bit awake. Hopefully, you will get sleepy doing this. You may have a WILD if you're lucky Good luck.

Originally Posted by MoonageDaydream

Hi, sorry, I am not sure what you are asking? If you mean can you do a WBTB after 7.5 hours, sure, if you are going to get 12 hours of sleep. You want to make sure you are still sleepy and capable of going back to sleep after your WBTB time period. If 7.5 hours isn't working for you, I wouldn't shift to 8 hours (although you can), personally, I would try a longer waking period. So if you stayed awake for 10 minutes, make it 15-20.




Which Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming technique are you using? I know he offers several.

One good technique to use with this obe4u method (which seems like a WBTB), is practicing a mental relaxation technique while doing your WBTB. So after your 7.5 hours of sleep, stay awake a bit. When you feel ready to go back to sleep, lay down and mentally focus your attention on every part of your body. In the book Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming, he calls it the "61 point relaxation technique". Start with your toes, then foot, then heel and ankle, move up to your calves, etc. Spend about 30 seconds on each spot, notice any sensations or discomfort/pain, and feel it until it relaxes, then shift to the next spot. This allows your body to relax while keeping your mind just a tiny bit awake. Hopefully, you will get sleepy doing this. You may have a WILD if you're lucky Good luck.

I'm using the technique from the first part of the book where he says to catalog dreams so you can identify dream signs (I think it's common themes in your dreams) he says to do it for a few weeks so you can catalog dream times. Other than that I'm going to try to use the obe4u techniques on Fri-Sun.

Thanks.

Originally Posted by luffy28

Hi,
I wanted to know what to do for step 2 of the obe4u method? I've tried having thoughts before sleep of awakening and nothing happens. I also have tried the practical alarm clock and it's awoken me fully instead of awakening me and me going back to sleep. Should I put the audio at a certain level below conscious hearing so I can go back to sleep once I hear it?

https://obe4u.com/how-to-lucid-dream/

Any advice?

Thanks.

Hey Luffy28!

Here's what I did to wake up during the night when doing obe4u method, which I learned quite well.

Theirs two main factors u need to combine:

* A strong firm will/intention to wake up after EVERY sleep cycle to then initiate the separation technique.

* A nice early night. Yeah, literally go to bed with the birds and don't expose your eyes and body to ANY artificial lighting, unless its a very dim orange warm colored light that won't disrupt your melatonin levels. Yes, this is a important factor. Blue lighting from phones, tv, your laptop and general house lighting will slow down melatonin production, affecting sleep and dream quality.

When I used to go to bed right on sundown without using artificial lighting and set a firm intention to practice obe4u techniques, I'd wake up after most sleep cycles. I'd be naturally waking up after every 90 minute sleep cycle, without an alarm clock. Usually, it would be between 5-7 sleep cycles, like clockwork. That's a lot of practice for 'OOBE'ing'

Had some crazy fun when I was doing that, hahaha. I want to get back into it...

PS. One more little tip will help. Don't eat anything heavy at night. Eat something like, a couple of hours before bedtime. This will also make your sleep 'lighter', helping you to wake up after each sleep cycle.

These methods are far better than alarm clocks.

Originally Posted by FlyingFree

Hey Luffy28!

Here's what I did to wake up during the night when doing obe4u method, which I learned quite well.

Theirs two main factors u need to combine:

* A strong firm will/intention to wake up after EVERY sleep cycle to then initiate the separation technique.

* A nice early night. Yeah, literally go to bed with the birds and don't expose your eyes and body to ANY artificial lighting, unless its a very dim orange warm colored light that won't disrupt your melatonin levels. Yes, this is a important factor. Blue lighting from phones, tv, your laptop and general house lighting will slow down melatonin production, affecting sleep and dream quality.

When I used to go to bed right on sundown without using artificial lighting and set a firm intention to practice obe4u techniques, I'd wake up after most sleep cycles. I'd be naturally waking up after every 90 minute sleep cycle, without an alarm clock. Usually, it would be between 5-7 sleep cycles, like clockwork. That's a lot of practice for 'OOBE'ing'

Had some crazy fun when I was doing that, hahaha. I want to get back into it...

PS. One more little tip will help. Don't eat anything heavy at night. Eat something like, a couple of hours before bedtime. This will also make your sleep 'lighter', helping you to wake up after each sleep cycle.

These methods are far better than alarm clocks.

Usually, when I made an affirmation to awaken for the first technique of the practical quest on project Elijah I would awaken but not go back to sleep. This might have been because I was excited. I awoke after 4 hrs and 50 minutes and went back to sleep and didn't awaken to the practical alarm clock.

Edit:

Could you also say what's going on in your head mentally to get the awakenings (when you awaken and then try to "separate") especially with step 1 / 2 / 3?

[Link Deleted]

Does anyone know a good app for volume control for playing mp3's during sleep?

Thanks.

Well, first of all, have a look at this site, and do some research. https://ehtrust.org/key-issues/cell-...ens-and-sleep/

I don't recommend using phones as an alarm clock/listening to stuff. It's counterproductive as the phone radiation and the 'blue light' is known to interfere with melatonin production and healthy sleep patterns. Use a cheap battery powered alarm clock, if you need an alarm clock. After some practice, you'll find you don't need one.

"Could you also say what's going on in your head mentally to get the awakenings (when you awaken and then try to "separate") especially with step 1 / 2 / 3?"

Its simple really. I can't explain it better than what Michael does. However, here's what I do.

Lately, I've been doing my lazy mans method. I go to bed having a typical late night around 10pm. Then, I wake up sometime in the early morning, just on first light, with the curtains closed to keep most of the light out. I then take a quick break. Sometimes, its as short as rolling over while setting the intention to phase. Other times its longer, getting up to have a drink, take a piss, etc


The important thing happening for me, mentally, is setting an intention to phase next time I wake up. How much mental effort is needed here, is very individual. You'll figure out how much 'stimulation' your brain needs to remember, haha. So, I tell myself to 'phantom wiggle' and 'roll out' of my body when I wake up next. Out of all of Michael Ruduga's techniques, that is what works for me the most. The sense of movement.

So, more times than not, I'll wake up sometime later that morning, experimentally move my body and realize, its my 'dream/energy body' moving and not my physical body. I keep moving back and forth, freeing my body until I float up, or down, or simply roll out onto the 'floor'. Where you end up depends on your expectation, of course. When I float up or down, out of my body, I end up in the 'Void'.

Their is a subtle difference between the feeling of your physical body moving and your dream/energy body.

If you can't go back to sleep after waking up, you may have been awake too long, been exposed to too much bright light ( bright lights from your phone etc suppress your melatonin levels making it harder to go back to sleep ) or simply too excited.

That's my current lazy late night method.

If I did all this again........ early nights, good dream journaling, no evening meal, minimal life stress, no emf and blue light exposure and practiced a strong intent to:
1.Remember my dreams
2. become aware in the dream
3. phase/project after each sleep cycle,...............I'd be phasing multiple times most nights! I used to be at that level but life stresses and some unproductive bad habits are in the way, haha!

I'm liking your approach, FlyingFree, and great job on imparting some advice from Michael Raduga's School of Out-of-Body Travel. Reviewing methods and techniques on the Phaser app helped me immensely to strongly return to the cherished practice of lucid dreaming last year during lockdown. The indirect method, for me, remains by far the most effective. It is essentially DEILD and I wonder why it isn't more widely promoted in the lucid dreaming community. I guess it is, by some, considered to be a type of deferred WILD but I would say it is quite distinct in that it takes advantage of hypnopompia rather than hypnagogia.

I am now able to enter the phase at least five days a month, which is enough to aid Project Elijah's research. I wonder if you have joined them there to help with their research. It can be great fun getting feedback on your own experiences from the researchers.

Originally Posted by FlyingFree

Well, first of all, have a look at this site, and do some research. https://ehtrust.org/key-issues/cell-...ens-and-sleep/

I don't recommend using phones as an alarm clock/listening to stuff. It's counterproductive as the phone radiation and the 'blue light' is known to interfere with melatonin production and healthy sleep patterns. Use a cheap battery powered alarm clock, if you need an alarm clock. After some practice, you'll find you don't need one.



Its simple really. I can't explain it better than what Michael does. However, here's what I do.

Lately, I've been doing my lazy mans method. I go to bed having a typical late night around 10pm. Then, I wake up sometime in the early morning, just on first light, with the curtains closed to keep most of the light out. I then take a quick break. Sometimes, its as short as rolling over while setting the intention to phase. Other times its longer, getting up to have a drink, take a piss, etc


The important thing happening for me, mentally, is setting an intention to phase next time I wake up. How much mental effort is needed here, is very individual. You'll figure out how much 'stimulation' your brain needs to remember, haha. So, I tell myself to 'phantom wiggle' and 'roll out' of my body when I wake up next. Out of all of Michael Ruduga's techniques, that is what works for me the most. The sense of movement.

So, more times than not, I'll wake up sometime later that morning, experimentally move my body and realize, its my 'dream/energy body' moving and not my physical body. I keep moving back and forth, freeing my body until I float up, or down, or simply roll out onto the 'floor'. Where you end up depends on your expectation, of course. When I float up or down, out of my body, I end up in the 'Void'.

Their is a subtle difference between the feeling of your physical body moving and your dream/energy body.

If you can't go back to sleep after waking up, you may have been awake too long, been exposed to too much bright light ( bright lights from your phone etc suppress your melatonin levels making it harder to go back to sleep ) or simply too excited.

That's my current lazy late night method.

If I did all this again........ early nights, good dream journaling, no evening meal, minimal life stress, no emf and blue light exposure and practiced a strong intent to:
1.Remember my dreams
2. become aware in the dream
3. phase/project after each sleep cycle,...............I'd be phasing multiple times most nights! I used to be at that level but life stresses and some unproductive bad habits are in the way, haha!

What do you think about using the obe4u practical alarm? Also, I'm attempting to do their practical quest on Project Elijah.

Thanks.

I want to know if it's safe to awaken every 90 minutes during sleep? The reason being is that in exploring the world of lucid dreaming book it says to awaken every 90 minutes with an alarm.
-----

I wanted to know if anyone has used the obe4u technique daily? The reason I'm asking is that I tried to use the practical alarm clock and was too mentally tired in order to do the cycling and "separation" techniques.
----
I'm trying to write a mini-guide on how to awaken during sleep for the obe4u technique, specifically step 2. I'll share once I get a reply back.


Thanks.

Originally Posted by luffy28

Hi,
I want to know if it's safe to awaken every 90 minutes during sleep? The reason being is that in exploring the world of lucid dreaming book it says to awaken every 90 minutes with an alarm.

Thanks.

I think so. But, it's not really necessary to time it exactly. Just make sure you wake after each REM cycle naturally. It's something that once you get in the habit of, you won't need an alarm, you will just do it. And, with practice, you will automatically recall your dreams as you wake as the very first thing you do. Like I said earlier, a great hack is drinking a glass of water before bed and after each awakening so that you have to use the restroom and will naturally wake up.

The only time I wouldn't recommend waking after only 90 minutes is the first sleep cycle, which is mostly NREM. You need your deep sleep. I would think it's fine after that. I know I've been doing something similar for years since I always slept with my kids when they were little. Never got a full night's sleep...

I agree, don't mess with the first 4 hours or so of sleep. After that, have at it.

Heyy, what's this obe4u technique, sounds new and promising? Is there a way to chat on dv, if yes could we converse about it pls?

Princessflare, you can go to that site and download the free ebook. The techniques are right up front in the first couple chapters. For those who make the distinction, that site is more geared towards full conscious projection rather than Lucid Dreaming, although the site admin seems to feel they are basically the same. In my experience the qualities associated with the full conscious projection are as different from lucid dreaming as lucid dreaming is from regular dreams.

I've read the steps but i can't understand 😕

I think the basic obe4u method is to
* only try first thing in the morning when waking up
* do not move a muscle -- begin the induction methods
* spend only 5-10 seconds per method and move on if one doesn't work
* have a plan for which methods to use in what order you plan to use them as well as a plan on what to do upon projection
* as soon as you are out rub your hands together to strengthen the "phase"

I don't want to rehash the whole thing here... can you explain a little about what you don't understand?