Thread: What happened? Post Your WILD Attempts, Good or Bad, Here

^^ Well, given that DEILD is simply a version of WILD -- of not losing waking-life self-awareness while transitioning from wake to dream -- then you were effectively doing both. So you were actually doing a WILD, regardless!

That said, it seems as though you were still doing a DEILD, and not a "classic" WILD. That rolling off your mat adventure seemed more like a direct leap into a dream than it did the experience of HI or other noise that you might encounter during the early stages of a WILD dive.

Interesting. Thanks, Sageous.

I think I'm getting more confident with DEILD transitions and I'm having less distracting thoughts as a result.
My latest attempt went very smoothly!
No questions this time, but I'm always open to new tips if you see something I could be doing better!

Spoiler for DEILD:

I tried to remember the tasks of the month as I did this, but nothing came to me. I felt myself slipping from the dream...
As soon as I woke, the tasks of the month instantly came to mind. I remembered I wanted to spend a whole dream doing the bonus task - Create a new song on an instrument that doesn't exist in waking life. I tried to remain still to re-enter the dream.

DEILD:
I visualised the room where I had just been and remained confident that I would soon return.
Almost immediately, I found myself back in my bedroom, which still had no furniture.

Full dream

I think i should offer nothing advice-wise, Dreamer, because it seems you did your DEILD just right... nice work!

But, because I can't leave well enough alone, I do have one suggestion: if you are considering another DEILD, then you should do another DEILD. Be confident you will remember the dream you just left, or, better yet, plan on comtinuing it.

If you start questioning your memory, you might relinquish control back to your dreaming mind, and, say, wind up falling asleep without awareness or turning up in a FA...though in this case that FA was not a problem for you. By the same token, if it were me, I probably would have continued the dream after the FA, sure that I'd remember what I dreamed earlier; if you're onto something (or just having fun), press on -- confident that will both remember where you were, and have even more memories to boot!

I just woke up from my first real DEILD chain, and what a chain! Somewhere in the vicinity of 10-15 entries, I lost count and can only clearly recall about 10 but I'm sure there were more. Many were returning to the exact same place, a large multi-level restaurant.

What I did: very strong intention at bedtime to be aware in dreams. Woke around 4th-5th hour and recorded recall, after that it took me a looooooooooong time to fall asleep, continuing MILD like mindset reviewing the dreams. It was probably at least 2 hours, and probably more. Several times I felt a WILD starting but no dreams came, it may have been NREM, I stayed calm and just decided to wait it out. Eventually fell asleep into a nonlucid that was at least semi lucid or a lucid waking moment at the end, then (later?) the chain occurred, I woke finally for the last time around the 8th hour. I might have continued but I wanted to record and try to enumerate the sequence before it got too hazy.

I'm pretty sure the start of the chain was waking from a lucid: because of this I was aware of what was happening and so could influence my reaction: to stay quiet. At first they were perhaps not intentional but after several it became intentional to see how long i could keep this going. The wakings were light / gentle, I stayed "close" to the dream each time, remained still and quiet and just kept the dream on my mind lightly and I kept returning, again and again and again.

I ate and fought lucidly for the first time, and had many .... Encounters .... (thus all the wakings, that's something I'm working on... And with all the DEILDs I feel I made some progress!)

edit: trying to understand why/how this happened, the conditions. I had a super long series of non-lucids and one semi-lucid the previous night, and I spent several (2? 3?) hours transcribing the (20 minutes!) of voice notes during the day. I finished this at night before bed: so

• I was thinking deeply about my dreams all through the day including a period right before bed (dream journaling the previous night).
• I set strong intention to be lucid in my dreams during the night
• I woke around 5th hour, recalled and recorded a number of dreams, and feel asleep very slowly with an active mind thinking about dreaming
• I was sleeping in an absolutely silent place solo in bed, so absolutely no distractions at all, not even the slightest sound or movement.
• I happened to awaken from a lucid (or had a lucid waking moment) at an apparently very good time in my sleep cycles to continue.
• I remained motionless, and very calm/quiet in my mind. I did not "think about" being motionless and quiet, I just was that way.
• p.s. no supplements! All natural LDs!

^^ Great work, FryingMan; sounds like you got yourself securely in the LD'ing groove!

You should print this post and hang it on the wall, though, so you can remind yourself how many different things you did to make this chain happen; should you have a time later when you are sure you can't do it anymore, you can use it to remind yourself how much can be involved in getting your head in the right place, and maybe as a reference list of the things you might have forgotten to do (also perhaps to remind you that LD'ing can happen without supplements).

Thanks for sharing!

Thanks for the feedback. I don't typically "try" for DEILDs since it seems the sweet spot is such a small target and the opportunities few and far between -- but with this really fun marathon it seems perhaps spending a bit more effort on at least the notion of training myself to notice wakings quickly while still emerging from a dream in the dreamy state could very well pay off with the creation of more frequent opportunities.

The tradeoff to remaining quiet and falling back asleep in a DEILD is risking worse (or entirely losing) the previous recall, but choosing that alternative at least sometimes sure keeps things interesting!

p.s. this month's lucids have all been without supplements, some really quite fabulous. So yes I know LDing can be done without them, the great majority of my LDs are "natural". But they can make for an amusing occasional "LD party", or as my night 2 nights ago turned out, a wild & wooly long night of crazy non-lucids.

Hi all,

I'm a first time poster on this forum. I have yet to have my first LD

I tried a WILD for the first time (seriously) the other night and met with zero success.

I have been practicing where possible (its noisy in our house - we live on a main road and the kids wake up all the time). but generally, the sensations I feel up to a point are like tingles. My body tingles for a while when i focus on my head or my breathing, then from there I feel like I'm bobbing on water, like a ripple.. although I've only managed to get to the ripple feeling once and not been disturbed.

Once I got this feeling of intense frustration and anger, so powerful that I had to give up and open my eyes. Is this a usual thing to happen? I don't know why I was so frustrated or angry, I felt quite relaxed!

My question is, where do you go from here. I start to see flashing lights in the darkness behind my eyes, I feel the bobbing sensation, and i'm combining with WBTB, but nothing ever seems to progress past that.

I think I nodded off once but I could hear myself snoring and woke up!

I think WILD is the way to go for me, because with DILD and MILD I am seeing zero returns, I've been doing my RC and trying to boost my awareness, but I just don't think my current lifestyle, IE being a parent and not having a minute to myself, is conducive with long lie ins, and being able to re-enter rem after a lengthy WBTB. Even on the occasions I do manage to sleep in (which will be from about 7-9am) my dream self is totally unaware of the dream. Its very frustrating.

I'm curious to your method of how you manage to hold on to your concious mind, as you fall asleep. For me, the closest I've got to this point is witnessing my mind wander, random thoughts emerge and break my concentration on my anchor or my point of focus (breathing, sensations etc). How do you make the transition and what does it feel like to you.

Today I woke up about 6am, and I think I could have attempted the WILD then, I just sort of felt like I was in the right state of mind and body state, totally relaxed and could see flashes when I closed my eyes. But the baby woke and I had to get up with him. Sometimes you are so focused on the end goal (lucidity) that it's hard to see the progress. A week ago I didn't even know what a WILD was.

My main problem is, when I start to drift off, I SNAP back awake. I try to focus on something but always SNAP back, drifting off, SNAP back.. arg!

^^ First, welcome to DV, DreamerDad! I think you'll find many excellent resources as you browse the forums, especially in the Attaining Lucidity and DV Academy forums.

Also, you might consider reading through my WILD class, to which this thread is attached. I think it might help.

Specifically regarding the attempt you posted, I think you might be paying far too much attention to the noise, or the distracting sensations that can accompany a WILD dive. These tingles, flashing lights, etc, are never more than hypnagogic hallucinations or simply your noticing physical changes that your body goes through every night, naturally, during its transition to sleep.

You might want to look into DILD again. Since DILD transitions happen while you are asleep, the distractions of your noisy household will prove less of an obstacle. Also, MILD is actually a technique for achieving DILD's, because DILD is not a technique, but a condition of consciousness (so is WILD): DILD (Dream Initiated Lucid Dream) indicates that your waking-life self-awareness during the dream, and WILD (Wake Initiated Lucid Dream) indicates that you retained your waking-life self-awareness as you transitioned from wake to sleep.

I hope that helped, and that you are able to mine DV for all the information you need to help you successfully enter the world of lucid dreaming. See you around the forums!

I had 2 WILDs this week!! ÒwÓ

First was a usual remember that I was WILDing and noticing that the visualizations are so strong now that I popped up inside the dream. So I wasn't conscious all the time, I became conscious during the final parts of the dive bcz I remembered that I was WILDing.

The second was kinda the same, but I remembered after I got into the dream by a few seconds, but I kinda slipped to waking and got right into being consious and awake with SP. First thing was that I reminded myself that I can't get hurt. Then I said to myself not to think about monsters, then I looked around and saw no monsters, then to keep the cat in the bag, I started visualizing a girl, hopping she'd appear and start ughm touching me. It started working but then SP wore off. During all of this SP experience, a modular started playing loader and loader then faded away, like a scary effect lol.

Around 15 seconds of SP. Then I moved my leg to check if I was still under SP, and I wasn't, so I was like "I finally experienced SP! I'm now one level higher as an oneironaut!!" LOL though this is not actually something that advances me, it's just exciting that I dived into a conscious awareness of SP while WILDing, even though it's an obstacle. XD

So I was calm, and I'm glad now because my average is 2 LDs a week!! This is starting to get better and better! All I need now is to train myself in staying calm and focused when becoming lucid, especially in these WILDs :3

Oh Louai.

Though it is excellent that you had these WILD experiences, and that you were able to remain calm, I have a feeling that they would have gone much further -- and been more rewarding -- had you simply ignored all that "SP" nonsense.

And it is nonsense; you seemed to be noting that yourself in your post, and to yourself during the dream. Yet you continued to get excited, even impressed, about "SP," which is a thing that is irrelevant to LD'ing, period. It is a very good idea to stop doing that, and an even better idea to understand that "experiencing SP" does not bring you to a higher level of LD'ing (it probably does the opposite), as this understanding in waking life will help you avoid believing that is so during the dream, and thus wasting your time and lucid energy.

I might seem a bit harsh here, Louai, but when more than half of your LD account is about "SP," that means to me that more than half the time you spent lucid was wasted on making a literally fictitious condition the focus of your dive, rather than the dream (you were likely experiencing REM Atonia, and not actual sleep paralysis). In spite of all the hype you might be reading about "SP" on these forums, "achieving SP" does not equal lucidity, and is by no measure a required step in the process. Spotting "SP" during a dive is not helpful, to anything. You likely already know this, Louai, but it seemed to bear repeating.

I know I've said this about a hundred times now, to the point where it's become a theme here, but WILD does not require "SP," and it is most definitely not about "SP." If you find yourself focusing on "SP" during the dream enough that what you remember of the experience is mostly "SP," then you might need to take a moment (or many moments) to shake off the fascination you might have with a condition that A) you likely do not have and B) is disruptive, and not helpful to your dream.

So congrats about your success, and I hope that you are able to stay calm next time, and to ignore any thoughts about "SP."

Originally Posted by Sageous

I think i should offer nothing advice-wise, Dreamer, because it seems you did your DEILD just right... nice work!

But, because I can't leave well enough alone, I do have one suggestion: if you are considering another DEILD, then you should do another DEILD. Be confident you will remember the dream you just left, or, better yet, plan on comtinuing it.

If you start questioning your memory, you might relinquish control back to your dreaming mind, and, say, wind up falling asleep without awareness or turning up in a FA...though in this case that FA was not a problem for you. By the same token, if it were me, I probably would have continued the dream after the FA, sure that I'd remember what I dreamed earlier; if you're onto something (or just having fun), press on -- confident that will both remember where you were, and have even more memories to boot!

Thank you, Sageous, this is actually something I've been thinking about lately.
I think I'm becoming a bit too precious about retaining every detail of LDs for my dream journal.
When I started lucid dreaming, I didn't even keep a DJ at all for the first few years. There are a large number of dreams that I don't have on record - some I can remember and some I can't, and it didn't seem like a big deal to me if I forgot them. It actually freed me up a lot, because my focus was primarily on the experience, not the record keeping. I never felt like I had to wake myself up to make sure I remembered everything from the dream (as I often do now with TotMs, etc.) and I felt free to chain as many dreams as I could (although I did this without waking, using a strange in-dream WILD/FA method I stumbled upon.)
Now that I journal my significant LDs (which has definitely been beneficial for improving my recall,) I feel that there's more pressure to retain as many details as possible.
This does sometimes make me weigh up whether to try for a DEILD upon waking, or whether to journal while my memories of the previous dream are the most fresh.

I think I've read before that you don't believe you can lose your memories of having a lucid dream. I have personally forgotten LDs upon waking if I've been woken up suddenly (like by dogs barking /phone call / someone at the door, etc.) and fragmented memories of the dream have only returned to me later in the day. I've also forgotten details of LDs if they're followed by non-lucids that are long or have vivid content, especially if my level of awareness in the LD wasn't particularly strong. Sometimes all I can recall is that I was lucid, and maybe I can remember a place or person, but the majority of the content is lost. It sometimes makes me wonder whether I've forgotten LDs entirely without knowing it. I definitely feel like the longer I keep dreaming, the more details are going to become fuzzy, even if I'm lucid, as I acquire new memories from the rest of the dream.

I'm glad you commented on this though, because I have decided that practicing DEILD is more important to me than retaining every single dream memory so I can earn my wings, etc. I believe that having WILD in my repertoire will add to my dreaming experience significantly, so it's something I'd like to prioritise and practice at every opportunity.
I also like your approach of being confident that I will retain my memories anyway. I will work from this angle as well - maybe I can have the best of both worlds!

I had a brief DEILD today. The bulk of the dream was non-lucid so I'm not going to journal it in full, but I'll write a summary here:

Spoiler for DEILD:

I had a string of non-lucid dreams that were set in different places but shared the same theme.
I was with anotherdreamer, who I'm very close with in waking life.
Each scenario had external distractions that made it seem slightly uncomfortable, like people telling us we shouldn't be there, or busy people around us working on things we weren't involved with. I felt calm through the whole thing, but anotherdreamer was showing signs of discomfort. I stayed with him in silence and projected a soothing energy towards him until he started to feel comfortable and calm with me. Each dream would end with a nice sense of connectedness, and an understanding that the things happening around us didn't matter at all.
The last time this dream repeated, I woke up prematurely, before we had established a sense of comfort. I wanted to re-enter the dream so I could end it on a peaceful note like the rest.
I stayed still and started visualising the outcome I wanted. My visualisations soon became a dream, back in the previous scene with anotherdreamer. I spent quiet time with him again, building that sense of comfort and connection. It felt very peaceful and I enjoyed just dwelling in that space with him.
It wasn't long before I felt myself waking up again, but I felt fine with that - it was hot and humid in waking life and I thought I'd start to get uncomfortable if I tried to sleep for much longer.

EDIT: I thought of a question. It's probably covered in one of the lessons I'm yet to read, so I'm happy to be directed to that if you don't feel like repeating yourself.
Is it generally more effective to visualise a static image, or does it not matter? In this case, I played out the scene in my head until I was there in the dream again. I think my emotions were tying me to the dream more strongly than the visuals, so playing out the scenario helped me to stay connected with the dream. I remember some advice from PercyLucid during his MILD course though, where he recommended only visualising moving scenes during daytime incubation, and sticking with a static image of the dream scene you want while you're in bed. This was for dream incubation rather than DEILD, but I'm wondering if you might approach WILD dives in the same way.

Interesting stuff, Dreamer, thanks for sharing!

Originally Posted by ~ Dreamer ~

I think I've read before that you don't believe you can lose your memories of having a lucid dream...

Well, I think it's less you "can't lose your memories" than "LD's as conscious experience have the opportunity to be stored in the same way as any other conscious experience."

Just as conscious experiences can be lost, so too can LD's, especially when the dogs bark. Also, as a LD'er becomes more experienced, like you, individual LD's become less important as the condition becomes more common. In other words, as LD'ing becomes a common form of consciousness for you, not all your LD's will make it into long-term memory; your mind no longer sees every one of them as important, just as it doesn't see every waking moment as important.

So yes, you might forget a LD if it occurs before, say, a vivid NLD, or several hours of sleep, and more dreams. But if that LD was powerful or truly meaningful to you, I have a feeling you would remember it regardless of when you had it, just like any other conscious memory of an exciting or important event -- and it will feel like that sort of memory. Yes, you still should write them down anyway, because even the best memories fade, change, or refuse to be recovered eventually, but no, they won't fade instantly the way most NLD's tend to do.

So yes, LD's are, I believe, stored just like any other waking-life event of consciousness, which leaves them several notches above NLD's on the memory-meter, because most NLD's are lost almost as quickly as you have them (note I said most -- I get it that some NLD's stay with you forever, sometimes whether you want them to or not). I believe this is enough of a rule that you can use how you remember a dream to help determine whether you were LD'ing, or perhaps just NLD'ing about LD'ing.

I go into this some more on my Treatise on Proof thread, if you're curious ... And yes, I know this is a controversial opinion that pretty much only I hold (as you'll see if you look at the thread), so I won't care if you disagree.

I thought of a question. It's probably covered in one of the lessons I'm yet to read, so I'm happy to be directed to that if you don't feel like repeating yourself.
Is it generally more effective to visualize a static image, or does it not matter? In this case, I played out the scene in my head until I was there in the dream again. I think my emotions were tying me to the dream more strongly than the visuals, so playing out the scenario helped me to stay connected with the dream. I remember some advice from PercyLucid during his MILD course though, where he recommended only visualizing moving scenes during daytime incubation, and sticking with a static image of the dream scene you want while you're in bed. This was for dream incubation rather than DEILD, but I'm wondering if you might approach WILD dives in the same way.

Actually, I didn't discuss visualization much in the class, because, as I am amazingly bad at it, the practice never really found its way into my own WILD dives. But I do have some experience with it, and of course can't avoid answering regardless:

I don't think it matters that you visualize a static image/pattern, an active image, or a full-blown dream scenario; what matters is that you are focused, and that you care about what you are visualizing. In the end it is probably more about those emotions driving the visualization than it is the actual visualization, as your unconscious is much more likely to respond to emotions that dive deeply into its water than to intellectual images splashing about its surface. So your instincts were correct.

PercyLucid's advice seems sound, though, because it makes sense to visualize active, even complex stuff during daytime work, when you want your visualization to truly occupy your mind and imagination, essentially setting it on a cognitive front-burner, pushing aside daytime distractions. And it makes sense to focus on a single, steady, simple image at night, so that your mind can relax and not get distracted by complexity (and this also assumes that your emotions and intentions are taking up the cognitive slack that simple visualization allows). I'm sure PercyLucid probably has a different, perhaps better reason for keeping it simple at bedtime, but this is enough for me.

Originally Posted by Sageous

Oh Louai.

Though it is excellent that you had these WILD experiences, and that you were able to remain calm, I have a feeling that they would have gone much further -- and been more rewarding -- had you simply ignored all that "SP" nonsense.

And it is nonsense; you seemed to be noting that yourself in your post, and to yourself during the dream. Yet you continued to get excited, even impressed, about "SP," which is a thing that is irrelevant to LD'ing, period. It is a very good idea to stop doing that, and an even better idea to understand that "experiencing SP" does not bring you to a higher level of LD'ing (it probably does the opposite), as this understanding in waking life will help you avoid believing that is so during the dream, and thus wasting your time and lucid energy.

I might seem a bit harsh here, Louai, but when more than half of your LD account is about "SP," that means to me that more than half the time you spent lucid was wasted on making a literally fictitious condition the focus of your dive, rather than the dream (you were likely experiencing REM Atonia, and not actual sleep paralysis). In spite of all the hype you might be reading about "SP" on these forums, "achieving SP" does not equal lucidity, and is by no measure a required step in the process. Spotting "SP" during a dive is not helpful, to anything. You likely already know this, Louai, but it seemed to bear repeating.

I know I've said this about a hundred times now, to the point where it's become a theme here, but WILD does not require "SP," and it is most definitely not about "SP." If you find yourself focusing on "SP" during the dream enough that what you remember of the experience is mostly "SP," then you might need to take a moment (or many moments) to shake off the fascination you might have with a condition that A) you likely do not have and B) is disruptive, and not helpful to your dream.

So congrats about your success, and I hope that you are able to stay calm next time, and to ignore any thoughts about "SP."

Yeah I see this hype about SP in this forum, and I know that SP isn't a WILD goal, it's just disruptive to the attempt. In fact I warn WILDers of this too. I really didn't view the SP as a goal or a success, I just got excited cuz I know how SP is like now (or REM atonia I guess), but thanks for your concern, I'm glad there's someone helping LDers out of false mainstream ideas .

Thnx! I hope I get more WILD successes soon, cuz my motivation is dried up so I'm taking a MILD break (it's been like 2 weeks or more and my motivation is building up slowly )

Originally Posted by LouaiB

Thnx! I hope I get more WILD successes soon, cuz my motivation is dried up so I'm taking a MILD break (it's been like 2 weeks or more and my motivation is building up slowly )

It sounds like the motivation is returning on its own, but you might want to to mark your calendar for a little self-induced motivation in a couple of weeks, just in case the WILDs don't come through for you, and that easy, relentless drift back to mundane life sets in.

Originally Posted by Sageous

It sounds like the motivation is returning on its own, but you might want to to mark your calendar for a little self-induced motivation in a couple of weeks, just in case the WILDs don't come through for you, and that easy, relentless drift back to mundane life sets in.

That actually sounds like a great idea!
I marked it after a week from now.
Thnx!

Thanks once again for your helpful words, Sageous.
I have bookmarked your Treatise on Proof thread for later reading, too - it sounds very interesting!

After thinking more about my priorities (as discussed in the previous post,) I decided to stop making in-dream tasks such a big focus for now.
I feel like if I go into a dream with the simple goal of enjoying whatever feels positive in the moment, it will allow me to feel more free and relaxed, and I won't be tempted to wake up immediately to write about the tasks I completed.
I also decided to make DEILD my top focus upon waking.
I had my first experience with these new priorities in mind the other night:

Full entry

Spoiler for DEILD:

After a while, I felt like the dream was starting to fade. I relaxed into this and crossed my arms against my chest, in a pose Dreamy told me he uses for WILD in waking life. I had decided that I was going to prioritise DEILD over dream journaling upon waking, so I prepared myself for a smooth transition.

DEILD
I started to feel my waking life body in bed. I stayed calm and still, and felt some mild vibrations.
The room from the previous dream appeared vividly as a still image, filling my vision. I tried moving gently to enter the dream scene. It didn't quite feel like the dream had formed yet, so I stayed still for another moment to give the dream a chance to stabilise. The image faded to blackness, but I remained focused and it appeared again soon after, although the room looked slightly different. I tried moving again, and felt myself in the scene now, but I felt very groggy and had trouble standing up properly.
This eventually corrected itself and I began to explore the dream scene. I felt really happy that I had decided IWL not to place any pressure on myself to perform specific dream goals. I felt like I could relax and take my time, and enjoy being present in the dream.

Spoiler for Unsuccessful DEILD attempt (FA):

Eventually, I felt myself waking up again, and prepared to try for another DEILD.

I felt myself in bed once again.
I remembered that I had fallen asleep in the middle of a Skype call with anotherdreamer, and I wondered if he was still on the phone. I was curious but I didn't want to move to find out.
I started feeling vibrations again, but I didn't recognise that I had transitioned into a dream.

False awakening:
I heard anotherdreamer asking me a question on speaker phone, but I didn't want to move because I might ruin my chances of a successful DEILD.
He kept talking so I mumbled something about trying to have another dream.
He started asking me more questions that required responses... I think he was asking for details of the previous dream. I was a bit annoyed, but I admitted defeat and realised that this DEILD wasn't going to happen.
I started writing some notes in my dream-DJ.

I stirred soon after and woke up for real.

So last night I went to bed around 10.woke up naturally on 2.From the moment I woke up started relaxing my mind.went to bathroom,then back to bed.Tried to relax my mind again.
Then started trying WILD(sleeping on my right).
It was today I read about Mantra so I used an external anchor.(I've read in a tutorial about that)
I was hungry a little.(well not hungry in fact.I don't know what's the name in English.It was because I ate dinner an hour before sleep.and I ate more than I usually do.This feeling was because of that)
At first I chose it as an anchor.Then changed my mind.Put my hand somewhere so it cause pain.After a short time I realized that the pain keeps getting worse and maybe I wouldn't be able to sleep.So again changed it to the white noise in my room.In the tutorial was mentioned that don't focus too much on it.Just notice it.Every time I found myself focusing too much on it lowered the focus and just tried to sleep normally and at the same time notice the white noise.and I rolled over a lot.just to find the perfect position and fall asleep easier.I guess my final position was prone.with my head to right side.contrary to my first position(on my right side)
Don't know when but lost my awareness and:
Entered a dream(with my conscious lost).It was like my own room just like when I tried WILD.just lighter...Anyway in the dream I checked a tutorial about WILDing!Started WILDing.I tried too feel I'm finally doing it!awesome.My body(or dream body or both)started vibrating and...I woke up!
LOL.I thought that I'm transitioning in to dream but on the contrary.I transitioned to reality.Then I just tried sleeping normally with the intention to have lucid dreams.Which didn't happen.
But I kinda felt good about it.And I feel that I'm too close.
What are your thoughts about it.What were my mistakes?
BTW repeating mantras in your head wouldn't stop you from sleeping normally and make you stay awake waiting for nothing?
Also there is a tutorial which you may have noticed but I'll post it anyway cause it kinda confused me by reading both tutorials.
Me as a beginner don't really get it.should I sleep normally or repeating a phrase in my mind over and over?focus too much on the anchor or just simply notice them?
http://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-...-how-wild.html
Thanks

Interesting attempt, Ramin: it seems your dreaming mind gave you a false awakening that was also exactly what you were looking for: a successful WILD!...Of course everything got sort of turned around, huh? Still, it was close, and that is something to feel good about!

What are your thoughts about it.What were my mistakes?

From what you've written, I think your only mistake was spending too much time sorting out your "anchor," and perhaps getting comfortable, and maybe not enough time on the dream itself. Having an anchor is a fine thing (that is, after all, a major purpose of the mantra), but making it, rather than the upcoming dream, the subject of all your focus, and the direction of your WILD tends to change toward just getting to sleep (which I think you noticed).

Also, though getting comfortable is a good thing, don't get carried away: Try to stick to one position throughout the WILD, and try to avoid the natural urge to roll over. Instead of looking for the "right" position during the WILD, I suggest you try one different position, and staying with it, each time you WILD until you find the one that works best. It might take a little while, but it's worth the wait, and you can still completely attempt WILD's without concerning yourself about changing positions.

Another mistake, from the perspective of this class, is that you really ought to put off attempting a WILD until after you've gone through all of the sessions at least once, preferably with a little time between each session. The class probably has answers to your questions built into it, and you also might avoid some problems if you wait to attempt a WILD until you have finished the class.

BTW repeating mantras in your head wouldn't stop you from sleeping normally and make you stay awake waiting for nothing?...should I sleep normally or repeating a phrase in my mind over and over?focus too much on the anchor or just simply notice them?

No, repeating a mantra really won't keep you from falling asleep, so long as you are repeating it to keep calmly focused on the dream, and not repeating it to keep intently focused on it (the mantra). A mantra should be a tool for focus only (or an anchor); be careful not to make it more important than the upcoming dream. It might take a little practice, but I think you will find that repeating a mantra properly actually helps to calm you, and to bring you closer to sleep, not farther from it.

In other words, don't be concerned about the mantra hurting your WILD dive; if done properly, it will only help.

Also there is a tutorial which you may have noticed but I'll post it anyway cause it kinda confused me by reading both tutorials. Me as a beginner don't really get it.
http://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-...-how-wild.html

Though I do suggest you continue with my WILD class (it really is not as complicated as it appears), BillyBob's tutorial is a fine one to study, as is DV's official WILD tutorial (brought to you by Gab). Since they all say about the same things, I'm not sure where you confusion lies... I guess we each say things a little differently. If you are confused, just stick to one tutorial for now, and move on to others later, once you've practiced a few WILD dives yourself.

So that was a good start, Ramin!

From what you've written, I think your only mistake was spending too much time sorting out your "anchor," and perhaps getting comfortable, and maybe not enough time on the dream itself. Having an anchor is a fine thing (that is, after all, a major purpose of the mantra), but making it, rather than the upcoming dream, the subject of all your focus, and the direction of your WILD tends to change toward just getting to sleep (which I think you noticed).

Yes,you're right.But had to make sure I can fall asleep easily.After about 10 minutes I figured out the best position and anchor.But I guess it changes every time.I mean my position in the last WILD attempt may not be good for the next one.So maybe putting so much time to figure out position each time is unwise.But the anchor worth the while.I should try different anchor so I find the best.I think the white noise was good but it's not there always.

Also, though getting comfortable is a good thing, don't get carried away: Try to stick to one position throughout the WILD, and try to avoid the natural urge to roll over. Instead of looking for the "right" position during the WILD, I suggest you try one different position, and staying with it, each time you WILD until you find the one that works best. It might take a little while, but it's worth the wait, and you can still completely attempt WILD's without concerning yourself about changing positions.

Hmmm.got it.don't try multiple position at one night.one each night!(right?!).
So roll over is a natural urge and if I fight it,there is a more chance at successful WILD.I usually sleep on my right side without even rolling over.But some nights that I have problem sleeping something makes me roll and roll.In that nights I thought the problem is with my position and if I roll to a different position I will be able to fall asleep then.But I was in fact making it harder for me to sleep.
The truth is that by this act I was kinda sending my mind the message that I'm awake and that was what made it harder for me to sleep!
And when WILDing cause I'm gonna trick my mind that I'm asleep I shouldn't roll over so it really believes that I'm asleep and prevent sending that messages!If that's it and I got it right,awesome!Now I can see what was the problem with me that nights.If I have fought with the natural urge I would have fallen asleep so much easier!Damn...
Did I got it right?!

another mistake, from the perspective of this class, is that you really ought to put off attempting a WILD until after you've gone through all of the sessions at least once, preferably with a little time between each session. The class probably has answers to your questions built into it, and you also might avoid some problems if you wait to attempt a WILD until you have finished the class.

Well I do RRCs and I feel I'm doing them right.
About timing after I wake up naturally I do it .which is usually after 4-7 hours of sleeping.
About focusing on shapes and feel the mind searching it I'm working on it.But I guess this process takes less than one second and don't know exactly how to feel it.
About mantras...yes.I guess I haven't found it yet.As I mentioned above.
But I think that it's better if that meanwhile I'm going through the sessions it can help very much attempting WILD too.
It really helped me realize why something you mentioned in your sessions matter.At first I was just doing them and knew a little theory why they matter.But now I can see very better.I'm not saying that I understood it completely.Just seeing it better.
And it also motivated me.Thanks!

Though I do suggest you continue with my WILD class (it really is not as complicated as it appears), BillyBob's tutorial is a fine one to study, as is DV's official WILD tutorial (brought to you by Gab). Since they all say about the same things, I'm not sure where you confusion lies... I guess we each say things a little differently. If you are confused, just stick to one tutorial for now, and move on to others later, once you've practiced a few WILD dives yourself.

So that was a good start, Ramin!

My confusion was about rolling over and the mantras.About the rolling over if what I said above is true then the confusion just got into hell.And about repeating mantras what you said about them destroyed the whole confusion.Thank you very much!

Originally Posted by Ramin2097

Hmmm.got it.don't try multiple position at one night.one each night!(right?!).

Right!

So roll over is a natural urge and if I fight it,there is a more chance at successful WILD.I usually sleep on my right side without even rolling over.But some nights that I have problem sleeping something makes me roll and roll.In that nights I thought the problem is with my position and if I roll to a different position I will be able to fall asleep then.But I was in fact making it harder for me to sleep.
The truth is that by this act I was kinda sending my mind the message that I'm awake and that was what made it harder for me to sleep!
And when WILDing cause I'm gonna trick my mind that I'm asleep I shouldn't roll over so it really believes that I'm asleep and prevent sending that messages!If that's it and I got it right,awesome!Now I can see what was the problem with me that nights.If I have fought with the natural urge I would have fallen asleep so much easier!Damn...
Did I got it right?!

Yes you did... Only be careful just to calmly ignore the rollover urge, as fighting it will make you as distracted and wakefully occupied as anything else.

A short but perhaps interesting footnote. Last night I felt like I didn't sleep a wink. I probably did here and there but mostly it was a sleepless night. I've been experimenting a bit with mega-multi-vitamins (which are very high in B6, B12, and pretty much everything) and soy lecithin over the last few days , in order to understand how they affected my dreaming. So I guess I found out .

Anyway, I tried to grab a nap after having been up for a while. I eventually did drift off slightly. At some point I noticed a pattern in some HI, and focused on it, and it "deepened" into a colorful "full-screen" cartoon image of an owl, who hooted "Who?.....Who?....Who are you?". It held steady for several seconds. I recall thinking "I don't want to have a cartoon dream" and the dream(let?) cooperated by vanishing even though I thought about holding it.

Most dreamlets vanish instantly when I focus on them, this felt more solid. It may have been the most conscious I've been so far during dream formation: from the generic monochrome abstract HI shapes to a full-color steady image. Sort of interesting!

This is probably my 3rd attempt, still absolutely no results. But I can believe I will finally do it, soon.

I woke up about 5 hours after sleep, and decided to go get up and use the bathroom. Then, I immediately came back into my bed and tried my attempt at WILDing. My biggest problem is falling asleep; no matter what, it seems that even if I'm really tired, I can't fall asleep when trying my WILD attempt. Anyways, I did the flex-freeze while laying on my back to relax myself. For about twenty minutes I sat repeating my mantra "Almost there" (sort of like a little further, I'm finally going to make it into the dreaming kingdom) to maintain my waking consciousness.

But, I could never fall asleep ... and that is really bugging me. Nonetheless, I will keep trying. Maybe I'll give myself just 3 hours of sleep, haha.

^^ That's a pretty decent attempt, Buckey -- I can only add a couple of notes about time...

Three tries is not very many; give it a few more before you get concerned. Also, 20 minutes is not a long time; if you find yourself taking an hour and a half or more to fall asleep, then you should become concerned and maybe move look to DILD for your transition to LD.

But until then, stick to your WBTB pattern until you are sure you can't get back to sleep... 3 hrs is not a long time to sleep, so you might be too early in your sleep cycle if you WBTB then, inviting a return to extra NREM and other difficulties.

WILD is a game of patience, if nothing else. So be patient: give yourself a few (or many) more attempts before disappointment sets in, and be willing to hold still for up to 2hrs before giving up. Both of those things can be annoying, but they are worth the effort -- especially when you seem to be doing everything else correctly!