Thread: "Dream Demons"

well, definetly not real demonds or forein existances. Even the most skilled LDers feel that some DC are like forein. These dreams are based on your expectations. If you focus, you can find that every event was what you expected the plot would be like, with some twists. Treat these dreams as nightmares and try to cure them. Good luck!

Originally Posted by JadeGreen

He would attack me and my dream guide and force me to wake up. He seemed to be able to execute dream control, but seemed much more powerful and experienced than me.

That's the first sign what you're encountering might be more than just a dream. If it is an outside influence, it will be toying with your attention in very clever ways.

Originally Posted by JadeGreen

I asked Lia about him, and I began getting some strange responses. One time she told me that he was able to move between dreams, and that he actually didn't exist in my dreams to begin with, and a moment later I had this truly horrifying idea that this wasn't just a normal dream character, but rather was some sort of demon that attacks people through their dreams.

She might have just been describing a technicality of shared dreaming. When you dream share with another person, you don't do it in the same dream, each person has their own individual dream which they are in complete control of.

Dreams are controlled by focused attention, so anything you encounter can only effect your dream by manipulating your attention. Trick you into using your own dream against yourself. Since it's not actually there, that's about all it can do, but they are generally really really good at it.

Originally Posted by JadeGreen

N-NOPE! The witch woman bursts out from underneath the log and has become a big black and red spiky demon-nightmare monster. I think that I'm in for a fight, so I prepare to use dream control spells to blast the monster.
Then I remember that when you confront a nightmare, your not supposed to destroy them, but rather ask what they represent. So I do just that. The nightmare shrinks down and becomes a kitten. There is a note inside of the kitten's mouth that I know explains what that thing is. Lia is trying to get the note out of the kitten's mouth when I wake up.

Those kinds of changes make me think it's not human. I suspect that kind of shape shifting trickster expression happens when we encounter something so alien, we just don't have the right mental tools to properly define it or put it into context.


My diagnosis... non human visitor. Good luck with that!

F*cking demons are f*cking real. Or they are not. Either they are sentient entities, or they are not. If they are not, they are thoughtforms, "DC", figments or manifestations of your own imagination. Every one like a walking thought. Think about something else, focus on something else, then those thoughtforms may simply disappear. If they are sentient, you may have to fight them. Go from your Inner World out. As above, so below, ride the Khaos Kurrent, go with the flow.

So what your saying is if this is just a dream I can just make it go away, but if it is a spirit or something I have to try to fight it?

P.S. I like your signature.

Start practicing dream control. It is very helpful. And my most valuable method is visualization while meditation

I'm going to switch the order of your comments around a bit....

Originally Posted by JadeGreen

This seemed weird, anyone else had their dream guide ask to be named by you?

It seems appropriate to me. The name is for you, not for the dream guide. Also, if you try too much to get the dream guide to do your thinking for you, that's like the cart pushing the horse, and you chase yourself around in circles and don't develop much.

Originally Posted by JadeGreen

The only reason I wanted to learn lucid dreaming was for artistic inspiration and more importantly to practice some degree of escapism, in having a private realm where I could escape the troubles of my waking life.

To a large extent your life flows from who you are, and you can't get away from yourself for long. So it seems to me mostly inevitable the way your dreams changed.

Originally Posted by JadeGreen

This is where I start getting some more serious questions. Does anyone else have experiences with a persistent dream villain? Why is he able to execute dream control even more powerful than me? Why is he evil? Why does he even exist?

The problematic side of you finds a way to manifest somehow, to force you to deal with it. I think he's not entirely a part of your own mind, he also comes from outside of it. However, the fact that he's in your dream has to do with the aspect that belongs to you.

Originally Posted by JadeGreen

Is this just my subconscious creating a story and attaching it to my lucid dreams, or is this a legitimate spiritual issue? Either way, I want to know how to stop this.

If I were you I'd look at it as an opportunity for self improvement and transformation, fate's gift to you. If you respond in a constructive manner it will change in a good way.

Originally Posted by JadeGreen

This is where she gave the strangest response, and I quote: "You think that you can do anything without consequence?! That is not the case in your dreams!"

I've said this many times in this forum, that you can't get away with anything, in your dreams or anywhere else. Whether I'm wrong or right, that thought finds its way into your dream, just as it found its way into my mind, because of its relevance to what we're doing. But I think this thought is more true than not. What you dream is in your mind, and like I said you can't get away from yourself.

Originally Posted by JadeGreen

This is where I got weirded out. For one THAT IS NOT SOMETHING A DREAM CHARACTER SHOULD SAY! I was even more weireded out by the fact that she actually acknowledged that you can do what ever you want in your dreams, but then went back by saying that I am somehow special and that in my dreams there are consequences. What bothered me the most was that in my sort of dreamy sense, I could tell that she was telling the truth.

To me there's clearly a shared element to your dreams, other people's thoughts are influencing your dreams. And this may be more true in your dreams now than in many people's dreams. I think it would be a mistake though to start thinking of yourself as a chosen 'moonchild' or something. Everybody has these issues in one way or another. There's a feeling of specialness when you discover yourself to be more than who you thought you were before, but the discovery works against you if you allow it to feed your ego. Other people were not who you thought they were either.

Originally Posted by JadeGreen

And why was she trying to get the note out? She is my dream guide after all, she should know everything about my dreams. Why didn't she know?!

In my experience dream guides generally have little understanding beyond what is in the human collective pool of knowledge. You apparently have some other ideas about what dream guides are. Those ideas don't seem to be borne out by your experience, so this seems to me to be a good opportunity to change those ideas. Maybe you can credit your dream guide and providence with that, bringing you opportunities to find the limitations in what you thought before.

Originally Posted by JadeGreen

But I'll get more into past lives later.

Off topic, but I don't think that you can trust what other people say about past lives any more than what they say about dream guides.

Originally Posted by JadeGreen

Wether or not this is in fact a spiritual experience, and I really am being harassed by "dream demons". Or this is just my subconscious turning all of my dreams into an elaborate story, I want it to stop. I just want to lucid dream normally without this battle between dreams and nightmares taking place anymore.

I think its a mix of a lot of those things. Like I said, I don't think you can get away from it though, and I suggest exploring it as a learning opportunity. You've found out that your dream guide has limitations. You've found out that the witch demon has something to say. I think you'll find out that other people influence you dreams. I think you'll find out that fighting what is in your dreams, such as by killing dream characters, will not eliminate what you don't want, that it will always find another way into your dreams. You have to find another approach.

Sorry this isn't a complete response and might not make much sense, I have limited time today. I hope it helps a little.

First off let me just say how exceptionally strange lucid dreams really are. Holy cow, the events you describe and the way they happen is just strange as .... !
Who knows how all this works.

"You think that you can do anything without consequence?! That is not the case in your dreams!"

With the risk of sounding like a know-itall i say; What about the emotion that goes along with destroying a city? Does this not give consequences to yourself?

---

I agree heavily with Wakingnomad. Haha, awesome view. As above so below. You can not escape reality. Lucid dreaming is just another form of reality. And inherent in reality is that you are not alone. What a lonely ride it would be.. Treasure your allies! Trust your dreamguide.

---

Sorry to be a bit of a douche.. I'm trying not to go ranting about demons too much. Though, I think about this stuff on a daily basis. I think the most surefire way to get rid of demons once and for all is to call for.. Angellic beings. Light beings. Allies. Atleast, so i have been told.

Part of yourself or demon? Either way, sometimes the best way to deal with them is not to feed them anything. There should be no fear. Confronting the shadow should be done with utmost self-confidence and no negative emotions should be allowed to enter your mind. Not even fear for negative emotions. Nada.

It looks to me like this entity is feeding off of your need for isolation. As if saying: "You want to be isolated? Hah! I'm here, messing with you."

So as a practical way you can practice getting used to the idea of another presence. And not get frustrated when you are confronted with this chap. From hence-forth i would trust your dreamguide to be able to give you more pointers. If it can tell you he/she is not part of your dream it can probably tell you how to shield yourself from such encounters.

/rant. Grain of salt please, i have been facerolling on my keybord again. xD

All the characters in your dream are aspects of yourself. what else do you think your self would say when you ask questions (to yourself mind you)? Unless you have thoroughly thought of your dream scenario ahead of time, your dream characters (self) will come up with odd ball things, and your lucid mind will try to make sense of it.
There is no demon, only negative energy/ positive energy and since this is your LUCID DREAM, you should realize this is all YOU. Ask yourself questions in your dreams or ask a dream character, but know that that character is an aspect of yourself. You might not get such negative reactions and might open your experience up for real enlightenment.

EDIT: As for the being in purple, you do realize that purple is the highest chakra , holder of enlightenment and you basically shot down that higher element of your conscious and unconscious self simultaneously?

Originally Posted by kadie

EDIT: As for the being in purple, you do realize that purple is the highest chakra , holder of enlightenment and you basically shot down that higher element of your conscious and unconscious self simultaneously?

lol, that's funny, it's not like anything will happen because of the chakra color

Originally Posted by WakingNomad

go with the flow.

Happy new years bro! We don't cross paths often enough these days. Or if we do, me recall is too poor to remember

Originally Posted by LouaiB

lol, that's funny, it's not like anything will happen because of the chakra color

Lol, I know that came out on screen much different than I meant.

So Maybe I can clear it up,,,,
Purple is the highest color of the chakras as we know. In dream symbolism it is also indicative of the following-Highest of positive motives, loving kindness, royalty, pure knowledge etc. In this dream, the color of the witch and her message is an important piece of the whole scenario that worried the dreamer. She was his highest, most pure aspect of himself that told him to stop destroying. His other highest and trusted guide which is a little lower on the hierarchy or characters in this dream crushes the "all good, wise loving part of Jades subs-conscience/self and the purple witch turns into a demon dragon thing. This is a very intricate play and battle of aspects of the self that Jade is unaware of for the most part. He is left wondering wtf is going on. So recognizing the color, and the correlation to the energy chakras is very important for him to grasp.

Jade, I hope what I have written makes sense to you, and i did not mean to come off cold, it's just that I have seen this many times and experienced it myself.
Best wishes

Originally Posted by kadie

Lol, I know that came out on screen much different than I meant.

So Maybe I can clear it up,,,,
Purple is the highest color of the chakras as we know. In dream symbolism it is also indicative of the following-Highest of positive motives, loving kindness, royalty, pure knowledge etc. In this dream, the color of the witch and her message is an important piece of the whole scenario that worried the dreamer. She was his highest, most pure aspect of himself that told him to stop destroying. His other highest and trusted guide which is a little lower on the hierarchy or characters in this dream crushes the "all good, wise loving part of Jades subs-conscience/self and the purple witch turns into a demon dragon thing. This is a very intricate play and battle of aspects of the self that Jade is unaware of for the most part. He is left wondering wtf is going on. So recognizing the color, and the correlation to the energy chakras is very important for him to grasp.

Jade, I hope what I have written makes sense to you, and i did not mean to come off cold, it's just that I have seen this many times and experienced it myself.
Best wishes

Yes, it's all clear now, thanx!!
But I personally don't believe in chakras, and these events are because of expectations, like OBE,s of dying and seeing angles and heavens. But this is not about me, but thnx for the further explanations^^!

Originally Posted by LouaiB

Yes, it's all clear now, thanx!!
But I personally don't believe in chakras!

You better belief, that shit is real!

Kadie is spot on with this, I think. It is the only rational explanation as to why the dream guide actually wanted to read the note. Have not thought about that myself. I was thinking

If one does not think chakras can be incorporated into reason then i challenge that one to come up with an explanation that you would consider rational. I think if that was to happen one would instantly spout a bunch of unsubstantiated claims about subconscious activity that turns out to be much of a fantasy projection and produce a whole gimmick of unsatisfying answers.

Note how i used the word 'one' and not 'you', LouiaB. I changed this as soon as i noted i was getting a bit agressive on the verbal side and just needed to have this vend off my chest.. hehe.. We cool?

Originally Posted by Dthoughts

It is the only rational explanation as to why the dream guide actually wanted to read the note.

Attacking the witch messenger causes her to turn into a monster. Thinking of the monster as a harmless beast/messenger results in the change to the kitten/fortune-cookie. The guide's attempt to kill the witch then read the message reflects the dreamer's intent, which is what this 'guide' does. It seems straightforward to me.

I don't disagree with the analysis about colors. But the colors would appear that way because of the meaning they have to people trying to interpret the dream, not because those meanings are grounded in a fundamentally true thought about chakras. Maybe the chakra color assignment is 'right', or maybe it is contrived, this is outside of what I know. But the dream tries to communicate using the available symbols anyway, and those of us who are reading the dream are a part of that process.

I think you guys interpreted the dream well, I'm just saying how I see it, since my interpretation is the same without using the colors.

I thought of the same mechanism as you did shadowofwind. One has to assume that the dream guide's actions are a direct result of subconscious expectation. Just as the entity's reaction. Which actually makes a lot of sense but it is assuming that there are hidden variables going on in the subconscious. All this is just not satisfying. The hardest thing to swallow here is that the witch in this dream is the dominant entity. She actually is powerful enough to stop Jade in his tracks and eventually end the dream (by way of inducing shock? increased heartbeat?). It is the more sane option though, i think it could potentially say this witch is a unconscious part of the dreamer but actually stronger and dominant over a lot of conscious activity.

The other explanation is the more spiritual one which considers the dream guide and the witch as seperate entities. The dream guide could well be a complex part of Jade's subconscious but the witch shows more charectaristics somehow. I think everything about her says something about the source of this entity. Purple colour indicates spiritual power. The fact that she is a witch might say something about the fact that she surpasses the dreamer's skill in magic. Since witches are often wicked it might say something about the dreamer's distrust in the entity. You would think the dream takes into account the dreamer's analyzing skills but who knows the effect on the subconscious or emotional system.

The dream guide picking up the note is interesting in this context the dreamer and the dream guide are engaged in a learning process i think. That is assuming the note has information that the dream guide can digest without the dreamer cus obviously he woke up.

Ahhhh, weird this. Lucid dreams are the weirdest.

"I want it to stop. I just want to lucid dream normally without this battle between dreams and nightmares taking place anymore."


I think Jade, the best thing for you to do now is stop naming all of your DC, practice some dream control, and try to invite only positive scenarios into your LD's for a while. Just by asking yourself if these DC's are demon's you have let negative thought in and since you do not want these "nightmares" interfering with your dreams it only makes sense to keep positive aspects of your dreams for a while.
As for the witch, she was for all intents and purposes your Highest self. I liken it to the waking life cartoon with the little devil on one shoulder and the little angel on the other. Listen to the angel and you wont go wrong.

Besides, you have a golden opportunity to face your nightmare. A challenge, perhaps? It could be fun!

If it were me, I'd look for the message in an actual fortune cookie next time I eat out. I don't know if this works for everyone, but it works for me, and I think it works with this witch.

I agree that the witch is to some extent an external entity. The internal/external dichotomy fails a bit though, and the chakra/higher-self interpretation is as true also.

The last fortune cookie I opened, a couple of days ago, said 'even a whale is powerless in the desert'. A couple of hours earlier my son had asked me if the animals at Sea World in San Diego were happy. I told him that they aren't. Here 'water' also refers to something like a psychic atmosphere, with our human condition being desert-like.

I was going to respond to this conversation, had something I was going to say. But for some reason, couldn't quite get it into words right. What it was wasn't that important anyway. Just know that I've read all your posts and am still here.

So thanks for your reading and interpretations of this situation.

Originally Posted by Dthoughts

Besides, you have a golden opportunity to face your nightmare. A challenge, perhaps? It could be fun!

I agree completely. But I think kadie is speaking more immediately to what jadegreen wants/needs, and is better in that regard than what you and I have been saying. It seems to me that everyone agrees with the dream meaning, with slightly different emphasis.

Originally Posted by JadeGreen

I was going to respond to this conversation, had something I was going to say. But for some reason, couldn't quite get it into words right. What it was wasn't that important anyway. Just know that I've read all your posts and am still here.

So thanks for your reading and interpretations of this situation.

Originally Posted by shadowofwind

I agree completely. But I think kadie is speaking more immediately to what jadegreen wants/needs, and is better in that regard than what you and I have been saying. It seems to me that everyone agrees with the dream meaning, with slightly different emphasis.

Ahhh good people

Whether the dream entities are sentient or imagined, you are giving them energy by your attention and your fear. The more energy you give the more power they have over you. From my experience there is one secret weapon that you can use to stop all sorts of demonic nightmare stuff in your lucid dreams!

All you have to do is smile and give them a big hug full of love. They may bite you and gnaw at you, maybe they'll even rip your body apart but if you can shine with love then they will no longer have any power over you. I know it can be very hard too, one dream I had an army of demons chasing me and so I stopped running and gave them all a hug and made my heart swell with love for them. They proceeded to take big bites out of my flesh and nibble on my bones but I knew that I wasn't that dream body, so it didn't matter, only the feeling I had mattered. Good luck~ ^^

There is nothing in that dream, that would in any way sway me to invoke the supernatural and sentient here.
A human´s mind is a wonderful thing - and fully capable of giving you this kind of "show".
Do you play video games?
Watch movies on topic?
Nothing wrong with that - just to illuminate possible "scheme" (got to get a clear understanding of that yet..) origins.
Wise words, Nomad. Most of them.

Originally Posted by StephL

There is nothing in that dream, that would in any way sway me to invoke the supernatural and sentient here.

Steph,

You keep saying essentially this, on different threads, "nothing looks convincingly paranormal here". Yet every time I offer to help bring you convincingly paranormal evidence you turn me down, not wanting to go there.

The reason I regard jadegreen's witch as intelligent and semi-independent, is I had a dream with what feels like very much the same witch. Of course from your perspective I could be projecting the similarity and projecting the nature of my witch. But you have that perspective largely because you don't want to consider any evidence that would change it. That all seems reasonable to me until you post in favor of your perspective. Then it seems to me to be begging for a compelling counter-argument, since I know there is one.

I'm not at all annoyed, just saying what I think.

I'm in the airport for the last time for a while by the way. I fly tonight, then pack to move tomorrow night, then drive Friday night, then I'm home for good, knock on wood, except for occasional business trips to China.