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    Thread: Dream Control Mastery Tutorial

    1. #76
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      I think that in waking life, subconscious attention has little or maybe no impact at all on future episodic memory, giving weight to ur suggestion that attention is actually limited to one action or focuspoint. We could potentially increase our memory-forming capabilities by increasing focus to multiple activities at once.

      I hypothese that there is a relationship between memory formation and focus at time of activity. We can test this by taking background music while performing a task. For example, doing the dishes is boring and ur inclined to pay attention to music while doing the task. Try something like that and i think you will agree that you are obviously able to remember song lyrics better than remembering which kind of dishes you did. Start including the dishes in joyful activity like dancing and you will apply focus on the objects as well. You will be able to remember the song lyrics, the dishes and the dance moves but also the exact time at which part of the song you did which dance move and which cup you hold in ur hand when you direct memory to acces the dance passes you used. I can tell you how that would happen, you will instantly start to associate the dance moves with part of a song, so you will vividly recall those 2.
      This one is trickier, so the hardest part might be memorizing the dishes, you don't always pay attention to where you are looking at but images of where you are looking at while doing the dance moves contains visual data of the dishes you are washing. Training yourself to pay attention to the visual field while dancing shuld according to my 'theory' ^^ result in increased capability for memory formation in those areas, btw. Less alzheimer damage etc.

      In a dream however, all this might be futile. I think there is reason to think that. Hypnotic recall of forgotten traumas is an excellent example of how that might be reasonable to assume. The imagination is utilized to present memories in. It might be utilized in this way to recall events that are normally dealt with in subconscious behaviour. Just like in the case of trauma where subconscious behaviour is so severe that it needs to be dealt with immediately. But traumatized peope often have repressed their memory so they feel and act in ways that are likely expressed by subconscious activity. Dreams represent the subconscious imagination (Including memories). Lucid dreaming is then the moving image of eternity.
      Last edited by Dthoughts; 01-25-2014 at 03:14 AM. Reason: Added last bit.
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    2. #77
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      Woow! This got very complicated.
      Well, for dilation, association will not create gaps of memory, so association would not make me feel that more time passed. So it is still 2 max. But the sub's activity is processed in another part of the brain, and has a different part of the memory. These activities created by the sub(aka multiple dreams, field of vision analysis) only add to the other memory. Again, we can make the sub work more, and store more memories, but it stores them in its own memory. I don't think that that kind of memory works for any time dilation purpose except to fill those gaps of the episodic memory. And episodic memory requires conscious attention, so, again, time dilation is 2 max. Sub attention and activity only work on filling the gaps.
      This is a suggestion. We need some real scientific brains....Hmmmm
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    3. #78
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      ^^ In lieu of scientific brains, how 'bout a little common sense?

      Why not start with a 2-way split, Loaui, without concern at first for greater numbers? After you get that bit down, and decide you've dilated time, you could move on to sussing out ways to massage your unconscious' attention span.

      Not that I want to see the theorizing come to an end, of course; Dthoughts last post was fascinating!
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    4. #79
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      Easy for you to say Mr. always lucid lol.

      Yes, his last post was very fascinating, and I am not skeptic about the issue of doubling time, but the issue of tripling it, because Istill doubt that subconscious attention really matters in feeling more time except for filling those memory gaps created by double-tasking.

      This can be solved. We can present the issue to a scientist and he would give us the answer right away! Who is the closest thing to a scientist we have here in DV? Zoth!

      I aid time dilation, but subconscious attention doesn't add experiences to the episodic memory. And those extra experiences are what are dilating the time of the dream.
      Again, only hypothesizing.

      Edit: that experiment idea is great!
      I fill my heart with fire, with passion, passion for what makes me nostalgic. A unique perspective fuels my fire, makes me discover new passions, more nostalgia. I love it.

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    5. #80
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      Quote Originally Posted by Dthoughts View Post
      I think that in waking life, subconscious attention has little or maybe no impact at all on future episodic memory, giving weight to ur suggestion that attention is actually limited to one action or focuspoint. We could potentially increase our memory-forming capabilities by increasing focus to multiple activities at once.

      I hypothese that there is a relationship between memory formation and focus at time of activity. We can test this by taking background music while performing a task. For example, doing the dishes is boring and ur inclined to pay attention to music while doing the task. Try something like that and i think you will agree that you are obviously able to remember song lyrics better than remembering which kind of dishes you did. Start including the dishes in joyful activity like dancing and you will apply focus on the objects as well. You will be able to remember the song lyrics, the dishes and the dance moves but also the exact time at which part of the song you did which dance move and which cup you hold in ur hand when you direct memory to acces the dance passes you used. I can tell you how that would happen, you will instantly start to associate the dance moves with part of a song, so you will vividly recall those 2.
      This one is trickier, so the hardest part might be memorizing the dishes, you don't always pay attention to where you are looking at but images of where you are looking at while doing the dance moves contains visual data of the dishes you are washing. Training yourself to pay attention to the visual field while dancing shuld according to my 'theory' ^^ result in increased capability for memory formation in those areas, btw. Less alzheimer damage etc.

      In a dream however, all this might be futile. I think there is reason to think that. Hypnotic recall of forgotten traumas is an excellent example of how that might be reasonable to assume. The imagination is utilized to present memories in. It might be utilized in this way to recall events that are normally dealt with in subconscious behaviour. Just like in the case of trauma where subconscious behaviour is so severe that it needs to be dealt with immediately. But traumatized peope often have repressed their memory so they feel and act in ways that are likely expressed by subconscious activity. Dreams represent the subconscious imagination (Including memories). Lucid dreaming is then the moving image of eternity.
      I have not read much of this thread, but thought maybe someone would find this relevant or helpful. It seems related.
      http://www.dreamviews.com/dream-yoga...esson-1-a.html

      Quote Originally Posted by sivason View Post
      Version 1: Listening to a Noisy World.
      Level 1) Sit in a some what quiet setting, but not a place free of sound. At first just get comfortable and quickly with no special effort determine if any sounds are already being consciously perceived. Sit and just notice which noises you where aware of before paying attention. Now, with your eyes closed, casually explore each noise starting with the most obvious ones. You may first have been aware of the sounds of children playing, and traffic from a near by street. Listen to any of the obvious ones for a moment. Try to visualize in a casual and light manner, what each sound is. Now, your only goal in level 1 is to move around your environment not physically, but with your sense of hearing. You should acknowledge the sounds that were already obvious, then move your awareness of sound around. Try to pick up on the sounds you had not been fully aware of. They will be sounds that are not extremely quiet, and will be easy enough to find. You are simply trying to become aware of the fact that while the sounds were there the whole time, you did not consciously perceive them until you focused.
      In an average attempt at this meditation I can often identify about 8 sounds my brain was choosing to ignore. Make a list in your head that tells you which noises you had clearly been aware of and any new sounds that you begin to perceive while meditating. You will find that at most times the world is full of sound we are choosing not to hear.
      Level 2) Repeat the level 1 meditation, but this time you will attempt to maintain aware focus on as many sounds as you can. Take the most obvious noises and pay attention to them. Think to yourself about what you are hearing, then while continuing to listen add the next most obvious noise. You may experience something strange here. This level is actually much harder! At about the time you are aware and focusing on 4 or 5 noises, and when you are scanning for more noises, your brain will attempt to ignore the first most obvious noises. Do not get frustrated; just watch the process with interest. Do not stress or become intense. This level may be practiced for years. You are learning to force your brain to acknowledge multiple sensory inputs. Try to get to where you can stay relaxed and keep a full awareness of 8 sounds at one time.
      Level 3) To complete this version get to a point where you can perform daily actions while maintaining the same level of awareness as level 2. Here is an easy example. While a person is walking, they will almost always blank out the sound of their own feet hitting the ground. In level 3 do something like go for a walk. While your eyes are open and your feet are moving start to go through the process involved in #2 above. You will be surprised on how foreign trying to hear your own foot steps is if you do not allow your focus to be taken off other things. It is not enough to be able to walk and hear your foot falls. You need to be able to walk casually, hear all the standard noises, and maintain awareness of the sounds of your own feet. If you get good at that add in one more item. Listen to all the normal noises, while being aware of the sound of your feet and the sound of the air moving past your ears, or some other subtle noise your body would normally ignore.
      Peace Be With You. Oh, and sure, The Force too, why not.



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    6. #81
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      ^^ Thanks for sharing, Sivason!

      If you can find time it would be great if you could check out more of the thread; your perspective would be most welcome!
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    7. #82
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      Wow sivason

      In about 1975 ish one of my friends told me that he was with a small group of people who were (casually) talking to an old Indian Mahatma. He asked him

      "What is it like to be enlightened?"

      The Manhattan quietly and innocently answered:

      "You know, when you look at a tree, how every leaf is a different shade of green? "

      The group didn't want to interupt the Mahatma by saying that "No" we don't see that. So they nodded, "yes".

      The Mahatma continued

      "Well"

      When I listen to that tree, every leaf has a different sound"


      We never even began to imagine that the ego-free and thought-free state of Enlightenment was s o o o sensuality advanced.

      Quote Originally Posted by sivason View Post
      Version 1: Listening to a Noisy World.

      Level 1)

      Sit in a some what quiet setting, but not a place free of sound. At first just get comfortable and quickly with no special effort determine if any sounds are already being consciously perceived. Sit and just notice which noises you where aware of before paying attention. Now, with your eyes closed, casually explore each noise starting with the most obvious ones. You may first have been aware of the sounds of children playing, and traffic from a near by street. Listen to any of the obvious ones for a moment. Try to visualize in a casual and light manner, what each sound is.

      Now, your only goal in level 1 is to move around your environment not physically, but with your sense of hearing.

      You should acknowledge the sounds that were already obvious, then move your awareness of sound around. Try to pick up on the sounds you had not been fully aware of. They will be sounds that are not extremely quiet, and will be easy enough to find. You are simply trying to become aware of the fact that while the sounds were there the whole time, you did not consciously perceive them until you focused.

      In an average attempt at this meditation I can often identify about 8 sounds my brain was choosing to ignore.

      Make a list in your head that tells you which noises you had clearly been aware of and any new sounds that you begin to perceive while meditating. You will find that at most times the world is full of sound we are choosing not to hear.

      Level 2)

      Repeat the level 1 meditation, but this time you will attempt to maintain aware focus on as many sounds as you can.

      Take the most obvious noises and pay attention to them. Think to yourself about what you are hearing, then while continuing to listen add the next most obvious noise.

      You may experience something strange here.

      This level is actually much harder!

      At about the time you are aware and focusing on 4 or 5 noises, and when you are scanning for more noises, your brain will attempt to ignore the first most obvious noises.

      Do not get frustrated;

      just watch the process with interest.

      Do not stress or become intense.

      This level may be practiced for years.

      You are learning to force your brain to acknowledge multiple sensory inputs. Try to get to where you can stay relaxed and keep a full awareness of 8 sounds at one time.

      Level 3)

      To complete this version get to a point where you can perform daily actions while maintaining the same level of awareness as level 2.

      Here is an easy example.

      While a person is walking, they will almost always blank out the sound of their own feet hitting the ground.

      In level 3 do something like go for a walk. While your eyes are open and your feet are moving start to go through the process involved in #2 above.

      You will be surprised on how foreign trying to hear your own foot steps is if you do not allow your focus to be taken off other things. It is not enough to be able to walk and hear your foot falls. You need to be able to walk casually, hear all the standard noises, and maintain awareness of the sounds of your own feet.

      If you get good at that add in one more item. Listen to all the normal noises, while being aware of the sound of your feet and the sound of the air moving past your ears, or some other subtle noise your body would normally ignore.
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    8. #83
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      Wow

      'Gold Stars' now earn 30 (community) hall points!

      Ok

      I'm seriously considering jouning this class:

      ***

      http://www.dreamviews.com/dream-yoga...ml#post1877124

      ***

      Where that "sound" meditation is located. I never joined a class before.

      Sorry for going off-topic, Mylynes.
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    9. #84
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      Quote Originally Posted by Dthoughts View Post

      I hypothese that there is a relationship between memory formation and focus at time of activity. We can test this by taking background music while performing a task. For example, doing the dishes is boring and ur inclined to pay attention to music while doing the task.
      You're describing novelty.

      I've identified 3 factors that contribute to memory formation. Repetition, Emotion Reinforcement, and Novelty. Novelty is essentially the same a repetition, only with a heavier attention footprint. The more attention you focus into your task, the greater the impression will be on your memory.

      Quote Originally Posted by havago View Post
      Yes
      Splitting awareness is impossible psychologically. Period.
      I'll disagree with that. It's only impossible if you don't have enough awareness to split.

      Awareness is a limited resource, most of which is being used up by egotistical BS. You need a minimum amount of awareness to sustain your surroundings. Most of us only have the bare minimum to sustain one reality, never mind two.

      I've bilocated in dreams a few times. The first few times I did it, I had the main dream, and also a smaller pocket dream. In the pocket dream I was sitting at a desk surrounded by darkness, because I didn't have enough attention to fill it out.
      Last edited by The Cusp; 01-25-2014 at 05:51 PM.

    10. #85
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      awareness is different than attention or self-awareness. We cannot have 2 self-awarenesses. We cannot experience more dreams than our conscious attention can handle.
      Attention=focus

      If we play 2 video games at the same time for an hour, do we rise up and feel we spent 2 hours?

      Can we focus on 10 videos at the same time? We can train our focus to split on several events at the same time, but we can't exceed maybe 8.

      Subconscious awareness/attention doesn't save at the episodic memory, so it has nothing to do with adding experiences, so we can't use it with this concept.

      I still doubt splitting our attention to several dreams will make us feel more experiences when we wake up because we lived those experiences together, and they will save as a one experience that we only lived with 2 different actions. The memory doesn't split these 2 experiences anyways. It remembers them as they happened, the same time, the same experience, just more hussel, unless someone claims that we live these experiences each with a seperate part of the brain? Splitting attention means the ability to interpret more inputs at the same time.

      Sorry, but I am skeptic again. I wish you would really consider what I just said, and what I said is nothing compaired to the real brain facts and studies that would challenge this concept.
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    11. #86
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      What if this guy Mylynes has actually created a new real universe? What if this is the natural way of creating a new universe? What if we are living in this kind of a universe?
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    12. #87
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      Oh I would also like to add that recent studies show that we actually can't multitask, it's impossible.
      This backs up my last post too.
      I fill my heart with fire, with passion, passion for what makes me nostalgic. A unique perspective fuels my fire, makes me discover new passions, more nostalgia. I love it.

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    13. #88
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      I would like to see how they did the tests. I'm always interested on methodology in these studies. Could you link them to me, LouaiB?

      Still. If this is actually the case. It's still a long shot from proving that it is not possible to do so in dreams. We may be talking about apples and oranges here.
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      I fill my heart with fire, with passion, passion for what makes me nostalgic. A unique perspective fuels my fire, makes me discover new passions, more nostalgia. I love it.

      "People tell dreamers to reality check and realize this is the real world and not one of fantasies, but little do they know that for us Lucid Dreamers, it all starts when the RC fails"
      Add me as a friend!!!

    15. #90
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      You guys on this page, page 4 (Dthoughts, LouaiB, Sageous, sivason*, Cusp and Nrfi) got me remembering.

      In the early 1970's meditaters (my friends and me) would often report astonishing experiences. Mostly expansion to fill a room followed by quick pictures that turned out to be precognitive. Now, after reading what you are saying on this page, I'm geting ideas.

      May be it was by habitually shrinking focus to ... umm ... much less ... that, that triggers connection with the ... ummm ... Matrix mind (???) Universal mind, god, oneness ...

      And

      Well

      My enlightenment experience

      I was united with everything for a two mile sphere that was sadly shrinking back to the skin of my body and back to the range of my normal human senses. I wasn't just aware of every birdie, worm, fishy, dog, cat, tree, person. Nup, I was completely in each body including my own (but my own wasn't special). Then the ego, the "me" slowely and sadly woke-up and drowned out the "cosmic consciousness" ... very sad.

      Just thinking ...

      There might be an inexplicable something just outside of "thinking" and personal "me" consciousness. And the entrance to it might be habitually shrinking personal "me" awareness to ... well I don't know ... but a whole lot less than "normal",
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      Thanks Havago. In essence taking the "oneness" experience, and especially the way you are describing it. We could conduct from that that the real "me" is all-expansive and ego is small in comparison. I think we could theorize that consciousness as a whole is a fragmantation of multiple me's already. The question that comes to my mind (not having had such an experience) is if you seem time distortion was a factor? And would you agree that whole consciousness consists of millions of fragmentations?
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      I would say otherwise. I stand by the idea that the sense of self is an illusion. Without self awareness, we wouldn't be but working machines. We already are, but with an ego, or sense of individuality (self).
      So in a sense, yeah, we are like fragments of the whole consciousness. I would rephrase it " we are fragments of the whole interactive world recognizing his separate, but still a fragment, entity each"

      Also I love the idea of turning the ego off for a while, would be extraordinary, and I'd say we would in fact remember it, but it might not be so cool, I don't know, it's like not having a self, something like that, I don't think it's a sort of liberation, at least I speculate. Tough topic indeed.
      Last edited by LouaiB; 08-10-2014 at 07:53 AM.
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    18. #93
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      Dthoughts

      Quote Originally Posted by Dthoughts View Post
      Thanks Havago.
      In essence taking the "oneness" experience, and especially the way you are describing it.

      We could conduct from that that the real "me" is all-expansive and ego is small in comparison.

      (1-) I think we could theorize that consciousness as a whole is a fragmantation of multiple me's already.

      The question that comes to my mind (not having had such an experience) is

      (2-) if you see time distortion was a factor?

      And

      (3 -) would you agree that whole consciousness consists of millions of fragmentations?
      I think I'm going to have to be patient and read the whole thread because I can't understand what you are asking. So I will.

      But

      My main belief-system is that, the "something" that is just outside the "thinking" and personal "me" is the one-and-only "big entity",

      1) - No, (to me) the "big entity" is not "a fragmantation of multiple me's" (or us's).

      2) - No I don't "see time distortion was a factor"

      3) - And no I don't "agree that whole consciousness consists of millions of fragmentations"

      I think

      that at the end of time, when the whole universe finally hit Absolute Zero, there was an unimaginable explosion (because at Absolute Zero matter no longer resists energy). The fusion of matter and energy begat infinate energy that became present (instantly) throughout all time and space). The vast majority of this brand new Big Entity cannot fit into the time-space-continuum (from the big bang to absolute zero).

      Even though it's energy bounced around within the time-space-continuum (making multiple dimensions) most of the Big Entity is beyond the space-time -continuum.

      The Big Entity is "totally merged" with everything (and each of us) in the eternal -"Now" moment.

      But

      It is not any one of us.

      The Big Entity is its own person.
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    19. #94
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      I was asking about time distortion because that is what this topic is about. I just took a wild stab at fragmentention. And honestly, the way I thought about oneness was more of a brilliant gigantic energy source. I am thinking of Alex grey's painting when I say fragmentation. Excuse the big picture but I coulden't find a smaller one.



      I basically thought of the godhead as the compilation of every individually divided consciousness stream submerged into one consciousness. But I see the fragmentation theory does not hold up. The reason I asked is because we are discussing dividing consciousness into fragments in order to have more experience at the same time. Thus time dilation is in essence having more fragments of consciousness to spend time in. Effectivelly splitting into different dimensions or something. ^_^

      LouiaB, what you are referring to is apparently a known occurence to some people and commonly referred to as Ego death. It is supposed to normally be preceided by overwhelmingly desperate thoughts as the ego clings to it's sense of self. But eventually at the moment it "dies" a shift happens and everything is one and peaceful. Or so I heared it happens. I sure think of it as a sort of liberation.
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      Wow it really sounds amazing! Is this what Buddhism do when they melt everything inside the dream?? I would love to experience this sometime (bet it's much harder than it sounds lol)
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    21. #96
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      "Eyes"

      That thing has at least 103 eyes.

      I wonder if it is the same thing that Waking Nomad istalking about in post number 4 (???)
      ?
      ?

      Quote Originally Posted by Dthoughts View Post
      I was asking about time distortion because that is what this topic is about. I just took a wild stab at fragmentention. And honestly, the way I thought about oneness was more of a brilliant gigantic energy source. I am thinking of Alex grey's painting when I say fragmentation.

      Excuse the big picture but I coulden't find a smaller one.



      I basically thought of the godhead as the compilation of every individually divided consciousness stream submerged into one consciousness. But I see the fragmentation theory does not hold up. The reason I asked is because we are discussing dividing consciousness into fragments in order to have more experience at the same time. Thus time dilation is in essence having more fragments of consciousness to spend time in. Effectivelly splitting into different dimensions or something. ^_^

      LouiaB, what you are referring to is apparently a known occurence to some people and commonly referred to as Ego death. It is supposed to normally be preceided by overwhelmingly desperate thoughts as the ego clings to it's sense of self. But eventually at the moment it "dies" a shift happens and everything is one and peaceful. Or so I heared it happens. I sure think of it as a sort of liberation.
      Here is post number 4:

      Quote Originally Posted by WakingNomad View Post
      Haha. Reminds me of the time when I first got into lucid dreaming, and I battled you in Outer Space. You turned into a big room surrounding me, every wall, ceiling floor covered in all kinds of eyeballs staring at me, you freak! I was really creeped out. lol I didn't know how to fight you, so I think I teleported away.

      Maybe you can do a dream control class in the DV Academy, or if you want, you can run a class in my sub-forum, Dreamwalkers. People keep joining it, but no one posts anything. Maybe you can get some life back into it with your creepy creative vibe. Any time you want to start a Dream Control class in my sub-forum, the invitation is open. Songi Klara!
      Well I think we can merge with the Big Being. And when we do we are aware of the Big Beings awareness of our individual, personal ego, (as in my "me") and also many other "real" animal, plants and human characters too but from the Big Being's perspective.

      And that causes THIS type of POWERFUL outer world Synchronization

      ★★★

      http://www.dreamviews.com/beyond-dre...-reloaded.html

      ★★★

      Checkout post number one "the sharks"
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      Quote Originally Posted by havago View Post
      That thing has at least 103 eyes.
      Did you count?

      I do find it typical that WN's encounter with Mylenes depicts him as having loads of eyes. Perhaps his consciousness splitting practices have anything to do with it, which might give his astral presence this sense of having multiple eyes. He has been a master of dream control for a long time judging by his posts. If there is an astral world he must have a strong presence there. WN could not defeat him.

      Wow it really sounds amazing! Is this what Buddhism do when they melt everything inside the dream?? I would love to experience this sometime (bet it's much harder than it sounds lol)
      Albeit I think it is easier to achieve in a dream I think it is also possible to be awakened during physical experience. And/or the two might overlap.

      Oh and Havago. I am in love with the light spirit you hold. Keep doing what you are doing love.
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      Did you manage to do it?

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