Thread: Lucid dreaming supplements induction DV study - Post your supplement experiment here!

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Introduction

The pharmacological approach to lucid dreaming, although in its early stages of development, has opened the door of this wonderful and philosophical experience to wide range of people who would not have experienced it otherwise. Recetly, I conduct lots of experiments with lucid dreaming supplements (LDS), but the problem is that I'm alone and therefore a little amount of results. What I want to achieve in this thread is to collect reliable data from DV members and draw valuable outcome. To do that it's required to follow the same conditions and the same template of recorded results. I seek experienced oneironauts, who would like to participate in this dreamviews study of LDS and comply with the set conditions.

Supplement choice is completely up to you.


References

These experimentations are based on work of Thomas Yuschak. It's possible to download free (google) book and studies bellow:
Advanced Lucid Dreaming - The Power of Supplements.pdf
Pharmacological-Induction-of-Lucid-Dreams.pdf
Substances_that_facilitate_lucid_dreaming_-_a_case_study.pdf


Conditions

1. On each experimental night sleep naturally for approximately 3,5 to 6 hours (or whenever you feel appropriate) before the testing period
2. Record time log of ingested supplement
3. Fill the template properly and score the results


First post

Basic information about your LD history (include this only in the first post of your experimantation)
• How long do you practice LD
• Your favourite methods or aproach to LD
• Avarage lucidity rates per month
• Total LDs


Template

Timing is the main factor with supplements so it's necessary to have time log.The log will highlight statistical trends and show you what
combinations work the best and how the various combinations affect the lucid dream. I recommend you to include all of the following
information:

• Date
• Time log starting time - falling asleep
• The supplements that you took before bed and during the wbtb
• The dose of each supplement
• The time that you took the supplements
• How many hours of sleep you had before you took each
supplement
• When did you go back to bed
• Activity upon wbtb
• How long it took to fall to back to sleep or enter the lucid
dream
• Technique used for induction if any
• Number of non-lucid dreams recalled
• Number of lucid dream recalled
• Estimate the lenght of the lucid dream
• Rank your ability to recall the dream (low, moderate, high, excellent)
• Rank your vividness of the dream (low, moderate, high, ecellent)
• Rank your lucidity level (low, moderate, high, excellent)
• Rank your dream control (low, moderate, high, excellent)
• Was it a DILD or a WILD
• Note if there were any physical or mental side effects
• List some general notes about the experience
• Optionaly insert a link to your online dream journal record


The scale of ranking

Recall:
execllent - fully recalled dream(s) with emotions, images, sounds...
high - full dream(s)
moderate - solid dream parts
low - blur fragments

Vividness:
execllent - more than real sensation
high - real sensation like
moderate - common dream like
low - blur

Lucidity:
execllent - unity of waking memories in a lucid dream
high - you know you are dreaming throughout the whole dream
moderate - you know that you are dreaming but not for long time
low - short time flashes of lucidity

Control:
execllent - dream is in complete control of your will
high - can do advanced tasks
moderate - can do basic tasks
low - dream behaves in its way


°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°° °°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°° °°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°

Example of the first post

How long do you practice LD: 5 years with breaks, half-year with supplements
Your favourite methods or aproach to LD: dream journal, dream signs analysis, dream signs day awareness, wake back to bed, mild, lucid dreaming supplements
Avarage lucidity rates per month: 12
Total LDs: 170 listed in my DJ

1. 7. 2014
22:00 p.m. = 00:00 - starting point of time log is fall asleep, so make sure you have a time indicator (stopwatch) near bed (notice that actual ''clock time'' is irrelevant), this is why is good go to bed when you feel tired and you know that you will fall asleep quickly
03:40 - awakening after 3:40 of sleep, two non lucid dreams recalled, one fragment
03:40 - 04:40 - reading the book Exploring the world of lucid dreaming, sitting in my chair
04:40 - supplements and dosage - Galantamind 4mg + choline bittartrade 500mg, 250 ml of water
05:10 - go to bed, 10 minutes MILD
05:20 - fall asleep
06:20 - awakening, 1 lucid dream

1. LD
Lenght: 20 minutes
Recall: moderate
Vividness: high
Lucidity: high
Control: moderate
Type of ld: DILD
Effects: Next morning slight headache
Notes: Dream was stable and I was fully lucid, but I had problem with controling the dream, I couldn't summon my stabilization machine.
DJ: jelly candy - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°° °°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°° °°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°


I'm looking forward to cooperation in the gathering meaningfull data and I hope that these results will spawn more intensive curiosity and investigation into this new and exciting field.

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As my first entry I'm posting a slightly "outside the box" experiment I've been wanting to try.

My background: practicing LDing non-stop for 11 months. My recall ranges typically from good to great, I usually remember at least 4-5 dream scenes of at least a few moments, up to many minutes a piece, every night, and have remembered up to 16-17 at the peak. In 11 months I've had 44 LDs (basically all DILDs) that range from waking moments (not much any more) to multiple-minute stable explorations, averaging about 4 minutes, but recently one upwards of 15 minutes and several super-vivid awesome experiences. I can achieve fairly high LD frequency (7 in 10 days) with intense effort but my average is 2-6 per month otherwise. I tend to have multi-week dry periods in-between the lucids (2-3 weeks usually).

I've tried various supplements on and off for 7 months to try to break up the dry spells. Generally my best results have come from REM suppressing supplements (melatonin at bedtime) to produce REM rebound in the 2nd half of the night. Most traditional "top-tier" supplements (galantamine) just leave me awake for hours.

Galantamine clearly works, and works for me, when I'm able to sleep. One of my top-3 LDs came about 5-7 hours after taking the G so I'm looking for ways to get back to sleep after taking it. One other time after an exhausting 4-5 hour non-stop attempt to sleep after G I had a dream that started lucid but immediately lost lucidity.

---------------------------------
Given my inability so far to fall back to sleep on galantamine, my idea was to try taking G at bedtime when very very tired & somewhat sleep deprived to see if: 1) I would sleep, and 2) if it would affect my 3-4.5 hr sleep cycle where I usually have some pretty good dreams.


2014-07-19 03:00 going to bed very very late very very tired after a long exhausting drive.
2x 4mg GalantaMind, 1x 300mg Alpha GPC

For the next several hours I felt in and out of sleep with very little dreaming. It was a bizarre state.

10:39 3-4 dreams a bit more bizarre than usual, but nothing lucid, and didn't feel extremely aware, more "going with the flow", there were more dreams I forgot.

So not the success I was looking for. I will continue next time perhaps with increased melatonin along with the G (2-3 mg perhaps), or L-Theanine.

27. 7. 2014
23:00 = 00:00 go to sleep
04:05 - awakening/no dreams recalled
04:21 - Galantamind 4mg + Choline 500mg, water
reading a book - The Hobbit
05:00 - sulbutiamine *30mg* ( I make my own pill, because ingesting sulbutiamine in powder is not a good idea...)
I decided to take sulbutiamine because I felt tired enough. It's a great deep sleep suppressor.
05:20 - short MILD/fall asleep
06:30 - awakening 1 hour LD
I write dream
7:10 - go back to sleep with no induction method and supplements
10:34 - wake up 2 fragments


1. LD
Lenght: 60 minutes
Recall: high
Vividness: high
Lucidity: high
Control: moderate
Type of ld: DILD
Effects: The ending of the dream was horrible experience. I need to get accustomed to these 1 hour+ lucid dreams. I couldn't teleport. But the next morning I feel good.
DJ: 1. day of competition (long lucid dream) - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

FryingMan, I would suggest dropping the GalantaMind and get pure galantamine. Latter has no B-vitamins to aid in keeping you awake (I know vitamin b keeps me up, at least!). Also, if you have G in capsule form, you can break the capsules down into half supplements, and fill your own capsules (2mg instead of 4). Sounds like a pain in the ass but you seem willing to put forth the effort!

Tonight I will do experiment with galantamine and alpha GPC. I wonder if I'm gonna take the first night galantamine and the seconed night alpha GPC - is it necessary to take a break, or are those two different supplements independent to each other desensitization?

Nfri: take them together, Alpha-GPC is a choline that has a 3-hour delayed peak plasma curve, taken together with choline bitartrate and galantamine, you get good elevated choline for like 5-6 or more hours of the galantamine efficacy (the choline bitartrate peaks and falls off sharply in the first couple of hours).

My recent supplement night:

full DJ:
00:00 Monday 2014-08-18 Home Run! 4 LDs: #50, 51, 52, 53 - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

summary: 4 LDs, 3 early, 1 later after 2nd WBTB

23:18 pre-bedtime 3mg melatonin
23:30? bedtime
00:00 Monday 2014-08-18

04:00 alarm, 2 x 4mg Galantamind, 1x 300mg Choline Bitartrate, 1x 300mg Alpha-GPC, 1 large rye cracker, 1 banana, immediately back to bed

(no recall @ 4am, just vague impressions, not even fragments)

05:00 still awake

05-06? very stimulated, familiar body buzzing feeling on G + Ch, difficult to get mind to stay at rest, "relieve tension," BTB

fall asleep somewhere around late 05? or perhaps 06?

06:xx(?)

3 lucid dreams

1st: awareness medium-low, fairly unstable, felt strong gravity sensations and transitioned to a cartoon-land, 2 minutes, visuals a bit hazy, then lost visuals, but bright visuals for cartoon land

2nd: very short (10-15 seconds), awareness low, bright visuals

3rd: awareness high, control medium, did TOTM, visuals clear, couldn't speak at first but that cleared up over time, 3-ish minutes

08:15?
awake, recalling dreams, trying to get BTB, jerks are playing loud music outside somewhere

09:10 ? receive phone call, stand up answer it

Back to bed. I'm quite awake. Should I just get up for the day? NO! I feel I have at least one more LD in me and I'm probably still on the fumes from the G. Boy, I'm awake. OK, if you want it, you have to work for it. You've worked for this, you know what to do, DO IT!

So I do counting breathing up to about 50, that's not helping much, the counting is keeping me too aware. Do my classic sleep kung-fu: on every exhale, sink deeper into relaxation, let EVERYTHING go: mental, physical tension, on EVERY breath, let more and more go, let everything go! And in a short while .... I sleep!

10:20

1 lucid dream: awareness high, control high (multiple successful summons), suppressed female DC temptation several times, very fun, finished with brief FA

full DJ:
00:00 Tuesday 2014-08-26 LDs #56, 57, epic long multi-waking dream, bunch of shorter dreams after - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

22:30 1 scoop UYM muscle-builder protein powder/carb mix with cup of milk
22:57 pre-bedtime: day memory review, set intention for recall and lucidity
23:17 bedtime
00:00 Tuesday 2014-08-26

03:10 wife fidgeting, woke me up, turned it into WBTB, no recall at this time, just vague sensations of having dreamt a little

05:19 epic multi-waking(?) long continuous dream of previous adult home, 2 lucid dreams within the mostly non-lucid content

2 lucids were low awareness and immediately caveman mode due to proximity of females at time of lucidity (and partially cause of lucidity).

The dream was long with strong visual detail and vividness, with a number of "WTF!?" moments that nonetheless did not get me lucid, including "sudden unexpected full daylight at 3am."

around 5:30 I decided to get up for a snack and 2nd WBTB since I had about 3+ hours left of bedtime, decided to try second scoop of UYM I've never tried it in WBTB before.

Ate 1 piece of wheat bread, small slice cheese, 1 medium banana, and 1 cup milk with 1 scoop UYM.

BTB then, long back to sleep, eventually sleep and have a mish-mash of random different slightly bizarre dreams but no more lucids.

23:01=00:00 starting point - go to bed, feeling sleepy

5:44 1 dream and 1 fragment
5:55 Galantamind 4mg + 500mg choline, 200ml sprite
6:28 250ml MILK
Couldn't sleep for 1hour and 15 minutes - need to wake up after 4,5 hours of sleep max next time

8:30 2x LD - wake up directly from lucid dream, excellent DEILD

1. LD
Lenght: 10 minutes
Recall: moderate
Vividness: high
Lucidity: high
Control: moderate
Type of ld: DILD
Notes: Ends in dark, I manage to not to wake up and stay in the dark and form a new dream scene - succesful DEILD

2. LD
Lenght: 15 minutes
Recall: high
Vividness: high
Lucidity: excellent
Control: moderate
Type of ld: DEILD
Notes: Tried 4 experiments - one included memories from my waking state - what was my breakfast yesterday? I had clear memory with no obstacles to remember. I had problem with summoning and teleportation as usual... :/
Effect: I feel strong effect of galantamind in my brain, but it's not annoying.

09:00 - One hour in bed trying to fall asleep, without any success

10:00 - go out of bed

*It's interesting how deep sleep supresors like caffeine and sulbutiamine have strong effect on prolonging lucid dreams (rem phase), without them, I tent to have lucids around 15 minutes long. I will do some experiments next week, but if I'm rested enought or take a larger dose, it's diffucult to asleep again which is really stressful. But it's definitely worth it.

Toninght I will try Alpha GPC so I hope it's effect wont be affected by today's galantamine desensitization...

22:00=00:00 - go to bed, 20 minutes to fall asleep

4:40 - one dream, 400ml MILK + 1200mg Alpha GPC
5:40 - watching futurama and go to bed, couldn't sleep for like 30 minutes

7:40 - LD recalled

10:40 - three long vivid non lucids

1. LD
Lenght: 10 minutes
Recall: high
Vividness: high
Lucidity: high
Control: moderate
Type of ld: DILD
Notes: At the start of the dream I tried 15 minutes to fall a sleep in a car. Then the car go nuts and after a while I did nose plug. I did some not very successful element manipulation with fire... At the end I did my breathing experiment.
Effect: I feel the increased acetylcholine levels in my brain

My hypotesis is that Alpha GPC is great supplement to take the next night after Galantamine. It utilizes effect of galantamine from previous night and does not the affect the waiting period another Galanamine night, which is 4 days. The alpha GPC will clear out of my body in 9 hours. I wonder if the effect of Galanamine will be great after 4 days.

23:30 1mg melatonin, concerned about too-warm house for falling asleep
00:00 Tuesday 2014-09-09 bedtime, I have a light cold

05:50? 1 long weird dream sequence ("shark park, $200,000, stadium girl")
fall almost asleep holding my phone before journaling, wake up again still holding it, journal it, don't want to get up for WBTB but decide to do it.

Drink 20 drops wormwood tincture with water (BITTER!)
Dreamer-MILD (dream-sign incubation, imagine getting lucid in a frequent dream location)
Zipplord47 self-hypnosis (arm levitation [didn't really work], + mantra "When I'm dreaming I realize I'm dreaming" about 10 times or more)

back to sleep

07:xx? woke from dream about work transitioning into long vivid baseball dream (which I had incubated during Dreamer-MILD), but didn't notice it! Woke up and realized I'd dreamed about baseball and missed it and swore out loud .

08:38 kick-a$$ awesome LD, TOTM,

clarity/vividness: high, super-HD, colors, clear vision
awareness: high at start, tapering off gradually to caveman at end
length: at least 10 minutes, perhaps more, didn't feel rushed
emotions/mindset: joy, I was smiling and enjoying myself the entire dream

I did no traditional stabilization. I think I did a very fast nose-pinch in passing while walking around and it indicated dream but I knew this already so I didn't pay it much attention.

"Stabilization" in fact I think came from: 1) just thoroughly enjoying the scene and being very happy there, and 2) having a plan (almost all of the TOTM tasks). Lucidity started slipping when my plans got vague after the TOTM tasks.

Effects: did not notice any effects from the wormwood. Before, wormwood has made me feel very "altered" and dreamy with a bit of difficulty getting back to sleep. Maybe this is less potent, or maybe my dosage was too small. I like to think this dream was all me + WBTB, because I'd like to have many more like this!

00:00 go to sleep
05:00 wake up - drink black tea with 100ml of milk (40mg caffeine)
05:10 go back to sleep
05:50 fall asleep

3 long vivid fun dreams, which one was semi-lucid ( I was in vitual reality game which was realike and more colorful and I was able to do whatever I want)
Caffeine is excellent deep sleep supressor and make you longer in REM. Next time I try black tea + milk + Galantamine

bedtime 1 cup wormwood and peppermint tea (1-2 teaspoons cut dried wormwood tea, 1 bag dried peppermint tea) about 15 minutes before bedtime

Interesting slightly unusual dreams, dream recall spotty/poor. Basically no effect. Unusual: wormwood is usually a wild ride all night long. It may not have enough of the active ingredient thujone, but it was extremely bitter and tasted like other wormwood's I've tried. I've been underslept this week, maybe I'm just too tired still.

Opti-Men multi-vitamin effective for better/coherent recall.

Spoiler for opti-men contents:

Nutrition Facts
Serving Size: 3 Tablets
Servings Per Container: 30

Amount
Per Serving % Daily
Value*

Vitamin A (as CaroCare , mixed carotenoids) 10,000 I.U. 200%
Vitamin C (as ascorbic acid) 300 mg 500%
Calcium (as dicalcium phosphate dihydrate) 50 mg 5%
Vitamin D (as cholecalciferol) 1500 I.U. 375%
Vitamin E (d-alpha-tocopheryl succinate) 200 I.U. 667%
Vitamin K (as phytonadione) 75 mcg 94%
Thiamin (B1) (as thiamin hydrochloride) 75 mg 5000%
Riboflavin (B2) 75 mg 4412%
Niacin (B3) (as niacinamide) 75 mg 375%
Vitamin B6 (pyridoxine hydrochloride) 50 mg 2500%
Folic Acid 600 mcg 150%
Vitamin B12 100 mcg 1667%
Biotin 300 mcg 100%
Pantothenic Acid (as d-calcium pantothenate) 75 mg 750%
Iodine (as potassium iodide) 150 mcg 100%
Magnesium (as magnesium oxide and aspartate) 80 mg 20%
Zinc (as zinc oxide) 15 mg 100%
Selenium (as selenomethionine) 200 mcg 286%
Copper (as copper sulfate) 2 mg 100%
Manganese (as manganese sulfate) 2 mg 100%
Chromium (as chromium GTF) 120 mcg 100%
Molybdenum (as molybdenim A.A. chelate) 80 mcg 107%


AMINO MEN BLEND (l-arginine, l-glutamine, l-valine, l-leucine, l-isoleucine, l-cystine, l-lysine HCL, l-threonine) 1 g

PHYTO MEN BLEND (green tea powder [leaf], hesperidin complex [fruit], deodorized garlic powder [bulb], grape extract [seed] [standardized to 95% polyphenol], fruit blend [orange powder {fruit}, pineapple powder {fruit}, apple powder {fruit}, grape powder {fruit}, blueberry powder {fruit}, cranberry powder {fruit}, papaya powder {fruit}, elderberry powder {fruit}, bilberry powder {fruit}, black current powder {fruit}, kiwi powder {fruit}], vegetable blend [wild yam powder {root}, carrot powder {root}, spinach powder {leaf}, cauliflower powder {head}, kale powder {leaf}, brussels sprouts {edible head}, broccoli powder {whole plant}]) 100 mg

VIRI MEN BLEND (saw palmetto extract [berry], damiana extract [leaf], panax ginseng extract [root], ginkgo biloba powdered extract [leaf], nettles powdered extract [leaf], pumpkin extract [seed], raw oyster concentrate) 50 mg

ENZY-MEN BLEND (proteolytic enzymes (papain, bromelain), amylolytic enzymes (alpha-amylase, lipase)) 50 mg

ALPHA LIPOIC ACID 25 mg

PABA (para-aminobenzoic acid) 10 mg

CHOLINE (as choline bitartrate) 10 mg

INOSITOL 10 mg

BORON 2 mg

LYCOPENE (Lyc-O-Mato®) 500 mcg

LUTEIN 500 mcg

ALPHA CAROTENE 140 mcg

VANADIUM 100 mcg

CRYPTOXANTHIN 34 mcg

ZEAXANTHIN 28 mcg

I've been taking 1 tablet opti-men multi-vitamin (see the spoiler above for detailed contents) daily for about a month. I recently stopped for a week, and found that after about a week after I stopped taking it, my dream recall began to get more fragmented and the dreams slightly less vivid. I probably experienced about the same amount of recall, but instead of story-like coherent multi-scene scenarios, each scene tended to be short and unrelated to the previous ones and more fragmented.

Yesterday I resumed (1 take one tablet daily, the contents are listed for a 3-tablet serving).

It's interesting that there are "high" (for the general public, but "low" for most usual LD-focused dosages of B vitamins) amounts of B6 and B12. It also contains some magnesium and zinc, which are also considered to influence dreaming (give vivid dreams).

To be more scientific I'll continue for a month or so on it, then take a break for a few weeks and see what the effects are.

I think it's interesting to note that staying "topped up" on vitamins and minerals tends to produce better dreaming.

I usually take 1 tablet in the late afternoon, early evening, and I find it does not impact getting to sleep. 3 tablets close to bedtime (the first time I took it) I believe I recall it making it harder to fall asleep.

17.1. 2015

3 beers and some cheese
23:00 go to sleep with 100 mg of 5-HTP
03:49 short wbtb 4mg GALATAMIND + 500mg Choline
04:25 fall asleep

In the morning remember that I had 3 lucid dreams, but I decided to sleep and not to write them. I also remember 3 looong non lucid cool dreams. 5-htp before bed has really some impact on rem sleep in the morning stages. Zeo shows not much difference of the deep sleep in first stage of sleep.

Last week I tried nicotine again. This time I bought nicotine patch 14mg. I used it with galantamine at usual wbtb. After 30 minutes I felt strong effect. I vomited six times and felt terrible. I did not fall asleep. Nicotine is very nasty poison, but when it's used with galantamine in the right dosage and timing, it's extremely potent stuff for lucid dreaming.

The thing is that it's hard to fall asleep with nicotine. I've got some zolpidem (which is nasty prescription sleeping pill) so I think I may use a little of it to help me fall asleep. Don't know about effect on REM stage, but I've read somewhere that effect on rem should be none. Ordered melatonin from US but custom officers destroyed it on the state border. Stupid laws.

Originally Posted by Nfri

Last week I tried nicotine again. This time I bought nicotine patch 14mg. I used it with galantamine at usual wbtb. After 30 minutes I felt strong effect. I vomited six times and felt terrible. I did not fall asleep. Nicotine is very nasty poison, but when it's used with galantamine in the right dosage and timing, it's extremely potent stuff for lucid dreaming.

The thing is that it's hard to fall asleep with nicotine. I've got some zolpidem (which is nasty prescription sleeping pill) so I think I may use a little of it to help me fall asleep. Don't know about effect on REM stage, but I've read somewhere that effect on rem should be none. Ordered melatonin from US but custom officers destroyed it on the state border. Stupid laws.

That's a heapin' helpin' of nicotine! I recall reading that people cut up the even way smaller patches even into yet smaller sizes. Great motivation to stay far, far away from the evil nicotine.

Two nights ago:

bedtime 01:30

alarm 6:45 (need to wake another family member for an important appointment)

take 1x 4mg Galantamind (4mg galantamine, 50mg choline, ??mg B5)

head back to sleep immediately, very disciplined, no daydreaming, aiming entirely for immediate sleep, about 5 times counting breaths down from 20 to 1 (way more than it usually takes), ignoring life/work/daydream distracting thoughts, fall asleep fairly quickly. THIS IS A MAJOR MILESTONE/ACCOMPLISHMENT for me. My back-to-sleep success is extremely high right now, which is what prompted me to try this G attempt and indeed I succeeded BTS on it. I will next (in a week) try with additional choline (300mg alpha gpc).

Had a vivid awesome non-lucid that turns lucid from a startling WTF moment (a strange structure suddenly appears on the bed), nose pinch inconclusive, try levitate check and indeed I'm a fraction of an inch off of the floor, get lucid and have a 6+ scene LD with 2 successfull TOTM basics, probably 8-10 minutes. Lost lucidity/woke up, re-entered dream and got lucid again briefly.

At least in the beginning, very high awareness and very good access to memory, at least goal plans. Did forget advanced TOTM. Some light dream control, successfully pocket summoned a pill, successfully materialized a lightsaber in my hand, but summoning my lucid mascot failed [didn't try hard], and summoning Sensei failed [tried a bit harder but not hard enough].

Stunning high detail environment. Woke and recorded lucid around 09:15

Maintained sleep inertia until 12:30, trying for more lucidity taking advantage of the galantamine fumes, but only got more non-lucids with just OK recall (one long sequence definitely forgotten). At least 2-3 more BTS successes after small wakings.

Nice one with all those tasks! Even better is getting to sleep so quickly, congrats.!
Have you ever tried Alpha-GPC alone? I find it much easier to get back to sleep on as its peak plasma time is 3 hrs., so its stimulating effects are not "right there" after taking it. The first time I took it alone, without Galantamine I had a nice little LD (900mg). Yushak claims it is a good stand alone trigger for DILD at dosages between 900-1200mg. I have only made one attempt, but it worked.

Thanks! Interesting, no I have not tried alpha-gpc alone. I was assuming that without the galantamine, the acetylcholinesterase function would regulate away all the extra choline, dumping it right down the "toilet" so to speak. But I've never tried.

Yushak says on p. 71

"GPC has a profound effect on lucid dreaming and can be used either as a trigger or as a support for galantamine. If it is used as a trigger it has the advantage that it is easier to fall back asleep than when using either galantamine or yohimbe."

also, it eliminates much faster than galantamine. This would seem to indicate it can be taken with more frequency than galantamine (although I have no desire to do this).

One thing with GPC that I find inconvenient is the long time to peak plasma, its a simultaneous boon and curse. With the long time to peak plasma it is much easier to fall asleep, but one needs 4+ hours of sleep after taking it to maximize benefits. That kind of sleep time is difficult for me to come by.

I am planning on running an experiment tonite.

It may be worth setting a 2-hour alarm for that, or even bedtime supplementing sometime.

Spoiled galantamind and small nicotine dose

After 4,5hrs wbtb I've took 4mg galantamind + 500mg choline, waited 30 minutes and then applied nicotine patch cut into small pieces as fryingman recommended - it should be 1/8 of 14mg nicotine patch, so around 1,75mg. I want to start with smaller doses to prevent overdosing and feeling sick with vomiting like last time.

The problem I noticed is that my galantamind looks wierd - cotton like. I opened it and tasted. It's some sort of spoiled I guess.

I find this on the forum from a Yuschak's friend:

The issue with Galantamind is storage. You must keep them in the refrigerator otherwise the capsule contents get gummy.

:/

So result was little bit vivid dreams, but not lucid. The effect of nicotine in the morning was very mild.

I'm curious if others would have good results with piracetam. Yuschak recommends piracetam only as a way of clearing the galantamine out of one's system, and he claims that it actually suppresses REM, but in my case the opposite turned out to be true. Galantamine gives me an awful "hangover" to the point where I got to hate using it (galantamine sleep felt like no sleep at all) but piracetam really did help to counter the ill-effects. Eventually I noticed, quite by accident, that piracetam seemed to work better for me as a lucid trigger than even the galantamine. These days my preferred stack, when I bother to use supplements, is piracetam + alpha-gpc + l-theanine + bacopa, and I've found this to be fairly reliable when combined with good WBTB and intention.

You guys run into problems storing GPC?

Alpha-GPC - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Vacuum sealed. Preferably a good vacuum. per 1 month supply is advised. Since we do not need so much for our purpose it may get tricky.

Originally Posted by Dthoughts

You guys run into problems storing GPC?

What I did, I went to the local Home Depot to buy some dessicant. Those are those small pockets of drying agent that come in some products. I got lucky and guys I asked about in the store, just unpacked bunch of shipment of lamps and they had a bunch of those packets in there. So I got them for free. I know amazon sells them too.

I put it in all my vitamin and supplement bottles and it seems to keep even my galantamind in good condition for over a year now.

I have only one dose of GM left, so I started experimenting with taking Alpha-GPC only. I took it few times during my morning WBTB. Few times I took it one hour after GM and choline, since it's peak time is much later than regular choline and GM. I also took it only about 30 min before bed. I had a huge chain of WILD + DEILD with supplements, but also without any. So I can't really tell, plus I only took Alpha GPC only a few times by itself, and only a few times with choline+GM.

It's good to be able to mix it up to keep my mind on it's toes, haha. Knowing that I can take a supplement to help me get back on track in case of a long "dry season" actually gives me peace of mind and makes my regular, "no-supplement" WILDing much more relaxed.

Galantamind - I have great experience with it. It gave me my first what I believe was OBE. I'm not having any issues falling asleep with it, or any stomach discomfort. But I go to sleep as soon as I take it, knowing that it normally takes me about an hour to fall back asleep. When I wake up from GM sleep, I feel like I had a much better sleep than without it. My muscles feel so relaxed, I almost don't want to get out of the bed. I used to sleep like this as a child. It happened on rare occasion, but sometimes I woke up from such an incredible good sleep, I would do anything to replicate it. So this comes close, but not exactly.

I used to take Piracetam per Yuschacks recommendation. But I didn't like taking it, because he says that it will inhibit dreaming for the next day or two, till it's in the system. So instead I just used to take more days between taking GM.

Also, as a reminder for all those that are just starting on this beautiful journey of lucid dreaming. Supplements are not going to give you a LD, especially not a WILD, if you already don't know how to WILD. I used this analogy recently in another thread: "Supplements are like a pro-baseball bat. They won't do a thing if you don't know how to hit, but if you do, they will give you an edge and better chance of hitting a home run."

Good luck to you all and happy lucids