Christian lucid dreamers?

[Hwen]

hello all. not sure if this belongs in this forum or a different one. but i suppose this is a good place to start it out. my assumption is that i am not the only Christian who has dabbled in lucid dreaming, and probably not the only one on this site. i was just wondering how others out there deal with both, did you have trouble with it? or did it not bother you? at first i was a little conflicted, then i realize that EVERYBODY recognizes their dreams for what they are at least ONCE in their life. and that God GAVE people the ability to dream, and furthermore, dream lucidly. and from there, i was able to figure out that dreams really are a spectacular gift that most people never realize its full potential. also, since most of you here have at least some shaky belief that LDing is OK, where do you draw the line once inside? sure, everybody knows that anything is possible within a dream, but do you still hold on to your moral code? if so, to what extent? i thought there needed to be a thread for this sort of discussion. again, if people think it needs moved, that's fine with me. let discussion ensue.

[JeanLucGodard]

Well since anything that happens is just in my imagination, I don't think shooting someone in a dream is wrath or having sex is lust.

[gab]

but do you still hold on to your moral code? I think that your behavior in lucid dreams is more of a question of morals and also wheather you believe dreams are happening in your head or someplace else, than a matter of religion. Happy dreams

[Pleeb]

Yeah, I'm a Christian and a lucid dreamer, I se no issues conflicting with my faith. After all, how often were dreams mentioned in the Bible?

[n00bf0rlyf3]

"There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses." Ezekiel 23:20. If that's in the bible then doing something wrong in a dream is perfectly fine

[Sydney]

I do try to keep my morals in a dream at least most of the time Because I know if I kill someone I will feel bad probably. But I am also a Christian lucid dreamer ^_^ and I can say that dreaming is such a wonderful gift... I don't know what I would do without it. I think it's a way from God that you can really find out about yourself, etc. I don't know, that's just what I think.

[Rubens]

I'm christian (protestant) and lucid dreamer (at least i'm trying to be). I think it's complicated to say what is wrong or right to dream. I think that we should observe how the things we do in the dream reflects in our real life. Killing someone in the dream will make you more agressive? If so, I don't think would be right doing that. I believe too that dreaming is one of the greatest gifts God gave us like you said, and I believe that He may talk to us using dreams (as He does in our thoughts).

[Sydney]

and I believe that He may talk to us using dreams (as He does in our thoughts). It's exciting to think about

[Woodstock]

also, since most of you here have at least some shaky belief that LDing is OK, where do you draw the line once inside? sure, everybody knows that anything is possible within a dream, but do you still hold on to your moral code? if so, to what extent? I'm a Catholic. I don't think that there is anything wrong with lucid dreaming, but I won't do anything that I wouldn't do in real life. No killing or raping people, no stealing (what's the point, you can make anything you want in a dream), etc. If you'll do it in a dream, what will stop you from actually doing it in real life??

[Hukif]

I'm a Catholic. I don't think that there is anything wrong with lucid dreaming, but I won't do anything that I wouldn't do in real life. No killing or raping people, no stealing (what's the point, you can make anything you want in a dream), etc. If you'll do it in a dream, what will stop you from actually doing it in real life?? Um, the fact that it isn't a dream and that you will actually hurt someone else? If you want to be so extremist, since dreams are in your own head, then everything that was "once alive within a dream" holds the same value for the brain, ie eating anything in dreams means you are already a killer and a cannibal at that.

[Caenis]

also, since most of you here have at least some shaky belief that LDing is OK, where do you draw the line once inside? sure, everybody knows that anything is possible within a dream, but do you still hold on to your moral code? if so, to what extent? i thought there needed to be a thread for this sort of discussion. again, if people think it needs moved, that's fine with me. let discussion ensue. I'm not a religious individual. However, I have questioned which actions I would consider appropriate in a lucid dream. For example, I am tempted to have dream sex with a friend of mine. I hope to never act out this desire, for I would be feeding feelings harmful to my real relationship. I would like to avoid sex with other DCs as well, but if it happens, that's not a big deal. I won't get attached to dream sex with a stranger. My current rule of thumb is that if a DC is a stranger, almost anything is permissible. If I attach a familiar face to the DC, I imagine that might complicate my feelings. The only individual that is the exception to this rule is my fiancé. Even this exception I question, not from a moral standpoint, but out of concern that I might be fueling an unhealthy habit.

[Diamondec]

I am a Lutheran and first off I like to say, n00bf0rlyf3 please don't quote the bible out of context. Because Ezekiel 23:22-35 describes the punishment Oholibah will have to face for all the wrongs she committed. Therefore, we should try to be always mindful of what GOD wants and resist doing anything against GOD in dreams. In other words, we should live by the Spirit as it describes in Galatians 5:16 to 6. If you want to read Ezekiel 23:22-35: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...23&version=ESV If you want to read Galatians 5:16 to 6: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...+5&version=NIV

[EbbTide000]

(0:00) So dreams are metaphorical translations of waking expectations(things you felt like doing). Expectations which got you emotionally worked-up that you couldn’t act-out for whatever reason become dreams. And the obvious benefit of that is that you will deactivate the emotional charge by acting it out. So dreams will deactivate emotional charges. There’d be two huge benefits from that: One is, that you’ll bring down stress levels (0:33) Because if day after day we had emotional impulses that we didn’t act out, the autonomic nervous system would be activated. The word autonomic means automatic. It only switches off when acted out. So we have all of these emotional patterns in us wanting to be acted out, and if they build up day after day we’d totally freak out. We’d stress out we wouldn’t be able to think straight. But By acting them out in our dreams, we’re switching them off, we’re lowering arousal. (1:00) And there were hundreds of experiments done with all kinds of animals, depriving them of dreams. And the one commonality in all these experiments was, that if you stop animals dreaming their stress levels went up. (1:11) And that is confirming exactly that dreams are bringing down stress by acting out the emotional arousal. And if you stop that in animals their stress levels went through the roof. They became very much more aroused. They became much more angry, more aggressive, their appetite got better, etcetera, etcetera. So that was again very much consistent with the data that dreams are bringing down stress. (1:33) The other obvious benefit from dreaming then is also (…) He said dreams are iether taking away pollutants on our instincts or adding new knowledge. And what the dream is doing is taking away polutants on our instincts. Because acting out the dream, if we didn’t do that we’d be placing inhibitions on our instincs. (…) (2:00) It explains why dreaming, if you stop people dreaming they get stressed out. (…) Why do we dream in Metaphor? (…) If you see someone in a dream they are not themselves. They are standing for someone else. (2:22) Nothing that you see in a dream is for itself. It’s a stand-in. It’s like a dream is a theater in which a play is acted out. (2:33) The script is the unfulfilled waking expectations but they are acted out in a theater, called the REM state and there is a cast of characters doing the part. Not the original people. (2:44) A replacement cast of characters. So that, for example, if you’re upset with your mum, in your dream it might be your aunty whom you’re upset with. If the dream involves you’re current school you might dream about you’re old school instead. (…) (3:03) But why was that? Why are dreams expressed in metaphor? (…) And the answer is this. What would happen if you didn’t dream in metaphor? (3:13) suppose we actually dreamt-out exactly the scenario’s we were in whilst we were awake. (…) Just think what the consequences would be. If we remembered those dreams we would be creating false memories, wouldn’t we? (3:33) If we actually dream that instead of holding back our anger we punched our boss in the face (…) and now we actually dream punching our boss in the face and if that goes into memory our memory would be full of false memories, which would be devastating. We use our memories to guides us in reality and if they are full of false memories then that would destroy the whole bases of our intelligence. (…) (4:08) That’s what the brain actually does with dreams; it switches off long term memory. It’s only very rarely that we remember dreams. We actually have to get them just as we are waking-up and grab them very quickly and put them into long term memory. So, that’s what the brain actually does it switches off long term memory storage for dreaming. (4:22) Why we evolved to dream: the new understanding Why we evolved to dream: the new understanding - YouTube (9:40) 13,307 views (5:27) You have to dream in metaphore or you would destroy memory. (5:33) Joe gets toooo tecknicle for me from this point on. I do try to keep my morals in a dream at least most of the time Because I know if I kill someone I will feel bad probably. But I am also a Christian lucid dreamer ^_^ and I can say that dreaming is such a wonderful gift... I don't know what I would do without it. I think it's a way from God that you can really find out about yourself, etc. I don't know, that's just what I think.

[dannygenerate]

hello all. not sure if this belongs in this forum or a different one. but i suppose this is a good place to start it out. my assumption is that i am not the only Christian who has dabbled in lucid dreaming, and probably not the only one on this site. i was just wondering how others out there deal with both, did you have trouble with it? or did it not bother you? at first i was a little conflicted, then i realize that EVERYBODY recognizes their dreams for what they are at least ONCE in their life. and that God GAVE people the ability to dream, and furthermore, dream lucidly. and from there, i was able to figure out that dreams really are a spectacular gift that most people never realize its full potential. also, since most of you here have at least some shaky belief that LDing is OK, where do you draw the line once inside? sure, everybody knows that anything is possible within a dream, but do you still hold on to your moral code? if so, to what extent? i thought there needed to be a thread for this sort of discussion. again, if people think it needs moved, that's fine with me. let discussion ensue. Enjoy lucid dreaming. It's a reality as valid as this one. The laws of the universe wouldn't allow you to do things that are not right by the nature of humanity, in other words if you can do it it's logically ok. Don't worry about morality in a dream, it's like a videogame... and no one things about morality in a game. Why? Because they know ultimately everything is going to be ok. If it wasn't going to be ok the laws of that gaming universe wouldn't allow it. Happy dreaming. link removed

[Hwen]

YAY! i love interesting discussion! i suppose i would be a little bit more rogue in my dreams. i mean, i would never rob a bank/museum irl, but it might be kind of fun in a dream. i suppose it's innocent enough, i mean, if i wanted something in the dream i wouldnt have to steal it, i would just make it appear. it would be more about the adventure than anything else. violence in dreams? this one gets a little grayer, a little bit more hazy. i've shot someone in an LD before, and felt awful about it. it's freaky how real DCs seem to be. and yet at the same time, i want to enter myself into the Hunger Games once my LDs are a little longer and a little regular-er. :\ but again, it would be less about the killing itself, and more about the adventure, and wondering if i could make it. sex is about the only thing i've completely ruled out in my lucids, it just seems to be the one thing that goes a little too far. besides, it's happened before in non-lucids and all i can say is it was very awkward and very confusing. something i wouldnt care to deliberately repeat. but i can settle with kissing *giddy laugh* still, if the only thing that was permissible in an LD was flying, i would be happy as a clam at high tide. it feels so good and natural that sometimes i think people were meant to fly in Heaven.

[Triforce]

I'm religious, and I don't see anything wrong with doing anything in your dreams. As long as you're not hurting someone in real life, I don't think it actually matters what you do in your dream world.

[Barry]

if you lucid dream you will go to hell ahahah

[Hwen]

if you lucid dream you will go to hell ahahah you know, i was going to tag something on my original post telling people NOT TO POST THAT. but you seem like you're just joking around, which is alright. i dont trust people who take things too seriously.

[Woodstock]

you know, i was going to tag something on my original post telling people NOT TO POST THAT. but you seem like you're just joking around, which is alright. i dont trust people who take things too seriously. I don't think anyone on a lucid dreaming forum would tell you that lucid dreaming is wrong. I'd be surprised if anyone seriously told you that.

[SilverJay]

Yeah, I'm also a Christian Lucid Dreamer. It's fine, and a great source of creativity. It's just harmless curiousity, and completely natural.

[somemexican]

I'm a Christian, and I've also done a lot of research on Islam and Judaism, and even begun to practice Buddhism (not really as much of a religion as a philosophy). I think pretty much everything that can be done in a lucid dream would be fine, besides murder and stuff. I mean, if you're having good, clean fun I don't see anything wrong with it. The only things that would really be bad would be things like lust, because it is a desire that you have, and since you are conscious while dreaming, that desire is also in your waking life. I also think that you shouldn't go around doing things that wouldn't be okay in real life for the same reasons i described with lust. However, lucid dreams are probably the best place to really think about things, and get to know God better, along with yourself. It's pretty much the only time that you can be entirely alone with God, without any distractions or worries from the outside world. For me, at least, my dreams feel so amazingly different from my waking life, it really feels like I've been transported to some different dimension (I guess that would be just my brain), and I feel extremely close to myself. Its kind of hard to explain, especially to people who have never looked into lucid dreaming, but I'm sure most people on here will know what I'm talking about. This closeness to myself I feel really helps me advance on my journey of faith, and like Rubens said, I think God helps us figure out certain things in our dreams, just as he does when we meditate with our thoughts. I believe that it is entirely true that God talks to us, but just in a more subtle way than we might think, and lucid dreaming can just be another venue for that sort of communication. That being said, having fun in your dreams isn't wrong, but I feel that a line must be drawn somewhere. And as to whether lucid dreaming is right or wrong, it all depends on what you do with your dreams. If all you do is fly around and stuff, than I think you could be missing opportunities. Sweet dreams everybody

[Borovan]

I have to agree with the majority. I am a Christian and I see nothing wrong with lucid dreaming. In fact, when I first read this topic, I wondered how anyone could actually have had a moral self dilemma when discussing lucid dreaming. To me, it's a dream, it's not real. I like the post about it being like a video game. It's so true and relates in a lot of ways. Most people don't feel bad about doing things in video games because they know, it's not real. I shoot up video game characters with absolutely no remorse whatsoever. Does this mean I'm a monster and don't have a soul? No...it means that I know the difference between real life and make-believe. Even with sex, I don't see an issue with having dream sex. Even with someone that you know in real life. I believe it actually helps more than it hurts. For example, say that you are lusting for your best friends girlfriend. Now say that you have the means to induce a lucid dream and have sex with that person. I think this would actually stop you from acting on these feelings in real life because you have a way to act out these fantasies otherwise. Every single person alive has fantasies, plain and simple. To say that these thoughts are evil is ignorant because you cannot help having them. Not actually acting upon the bad thoughts is what separates good from evil. So, all in all, I personally believe lucid dreaming is one of the best social tools available to us and that we should utilize it for all it is worth Just my two cents! P.S: Doing things you wouldn't/couldn't normally do in real life, is kind of the point of Lucid Dreaming to me...There are no consequences, no repercussions, it's NOT REAL...I would never, nor could I ever, shoot fire from eyes, fight off an army by myself, or skydive without a parachute in real life. But would I in a dream? You're damn straight

[lucidboy]

I was a christian when i started lucid dreaming. After several years of practice i began to have lucid dreams every night, and started searching for god. Im no longer Christian, although i very much believe in god. I don't know what "religion" to call it, but my dreams have changed my interpretation of God to something very similar to buddhist and taoist beliefs, minus the cultural influences. I contribute a huge part of this to reading their texts on dreaming after running out of Western sources. When i was christian, i asked myself the very same question. I dont know why, but i just believe that morals are even more important in your dreams. Even if dcs are only figments of your imagination, why would you want to harm yourself? And in the end, aren't we all just part of something much much bigger?

[lucidboy]

Saying dreams are "not real" has always seemed strange to me... Our dreams are so much more real than our waking life. Reality is not limited to the physical world. What happens in our dreams is just as "real" as anything that happens when we're awake.

[Sivason]

Hi, I personally am a Yogi, not a Christian, but I am very highly religious, so I have a few thoughts that may apply here. If you worry that LDs count as mystical, and have been told mystic things are from the Devil, look at the text and not at what others have told you. The bible over and over again celebrates the power of mystics like Joseph. Yet, many misguided Christians have been taught mystic gifts are only for the saints, and it is evil for others. "The Saints" were given that title by the church after death, so the logic is worthless. If you are worried about the morality of performing magicical feats in dreams like flying, well really, flying inside your own imagination does not count as magic. It would not even impress a 4 year old. "Look son, daddy is flying all around in his head, while laying perfectly still on the couch" Should you act out in immorral ways in dreams? GOD CAN STILL SEE YOU IN YOUR DREAMS, just like he can witness things done in a windowless room. So what? You have not really hurt anyone, so no damage done; so is it ok? I think God is ok with us exploring a little on our darkness if the intent is to grow closer to God through self exploration. Say you are having a normal LD and then you do something immorral, if it happened because of a slip in your self control, then this is a learning experience. You take it in, wonder at how the dream derailed in a distrubing manner, and work to improve. You actually use LDs as a tool to develop your self control. In this case LDs become a powerful spiritual tool. Lds can bring you into the favor of God in this manner. However, if you are choosing in full awareness to act out in radical or immorral ways in LDs, what then? I feel that the acts do not carry the weight of sin, but face it, God is watching you do all that sick and disturbing stuff. He may not punish or hold it in record, but certainly you will make God think you are a bit creepy. My final thought. You can use LDs as a 100% worship based religious activity. Here is an example. Instead of making a list of dream goals that read like video game skills, aim for lofty and spiritual goals. Examples: 1) Climb to a hill top and call out "Thank You" 2) Basic summoning, find a church. 3) Go up to, and neal before a cross. 4) Repeat a Hail Mary and an Our Father. With those as your drive and goal, how could God not feel you were using LDs as worship, and so smile upon you and your neat little hobby.