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    Memorable Dreams

    1. The Great Dream Pun...

      by , 01-13-2012 at 10:58 AM (My brain and I)
      dream : comments : lucid

      7th of January, 2012


      It was my birthday party. People were playing Mario Kart in a basement and generally fooling around. We went to Subway to get a giant sub/burger type thing that was all greasy and disgusting. Clinton said that he'd eaten one by himself before.
      When we got back, Sean had cornrows. I asked the other guys if they'd "rather have a lawn mower, or a cornrower?"
      I woke up and loled big time.

      Updated 01-16-2012 at 01:02 AM by 52392

      Categories
      non-lucid , memorable
    2. The Sad Proposal...

      by , 01-13-2012 at 10:44 AM (My brain and I)
      dream : comments : lucid

      31st of December, 2011


      Final dreams of the year, and they were doozies!
      Not quite nightmares, but pretty dodgy.

      I was at work trying to organise the best possible proposal for Nooks. I spent hours trying to organise a horse and carriage with a nice message printed on its numberplate. For some reason I chose to make a portion of the writing red which, when I finally got it all printed off looked crap. When I tried to change it, they told me they didn't have any spares and couldn't make any more. I wept my little heart out on the stairs for ages, screaming and hitting the pavement. Then I realised I hadn't even organised the carriage yet and decided to postpone the whole endeavour until tomorrow.


      Later on, I was at a party where a whole bunch of nerdy guys got into a hilarious, dweeby fight. At the party, this one guy had a "vomit maker" on, which was basically a bunch of leather straps tied around his body that looked like they'd been there for years. He said it was to help him be a better Satanist as it always kept him feeling sick and angry. Of course.

      I left the party and was approached by some guys who doused me in a flammable liquid and set me alight. I ran onto the grass but they had a whole field of sprinklers that kept shooting his stuff all over me and keeping me on fire. I dug down into the dirt to extinguish myself and eventually broke through into an awesome underground Minecraft area. It was huge and like a parallel world under the ground with blocky T-Rexes and stuff.
      I remember just looking around in awe before the dream faded.


      -----

      Walking near the road where some firemen were giving a hands on demonstration of their truck. When he was opening a valve, one really badly cut his hand open and put a wrench on it to pinch the skin back together. I walked across the road where this guy on a moped was driving madly in the wrong direction, he skidded in front of this guy driving his tractor down the road and then hit the kerb and bailed off. He stood up and stared and me with crazy-ass ice addict eyes then charged at me as fast as he could and stabbed me in the stomach.

      Updated 01-16-2012 at 01:03 AM by 52392

      Categories
      non-lucid , nightmare , memorable
    3. DEILD first timer

      by , 01-13-2012 at 07:15 AM
      .

      Updated 01-15-2012 at 12:39 PM by 51511

      Tags: deild
      Categories
      lucid , memorable
    4. A Nitendo Memory Will Remeber For Life

      by , 01-13-2012 at 05:55 AM
      I was just wakeing up in my old house where I got raised in. I looked around and I say my old toys and games. I even say my old nitendo. I got to my feet and started to walk to play it. I was like seven years old. When I was walking tords it there was something strange it felt like I was walking in water. When I finely got to it I turned it on and played this weird cars game. I was racing other cars and they tryed to kill me, I think. But there was something weird about that game, like it had super good grafics. Like the grafics was real, like real life grafics and it was a nitendo game. Anywas all a sudden my mom came in and turned it off she said no no games in the morning, it will hurt your little eyes. Then she turned it off.

      When I wuke up I was in my bed, I was crying I didnt know why. Was it because the dream was a memory from my childhood and so I just teared up, or was i just crying from wakeing up[IMG]nitendo[/IMG] to early?
      Categories
      memorable
    5. Sex-filled Lucid with Bananas and Hairy-assed Fat Dudes

      by , 01-13-2012 at 04:24 AM (Jakro Goes Hardcore Into LDs)
      My recall stays fragmented and I seem to not have any weapons against that. I usually only remember the last bit before waking up. Still, at least something every day. So let's head back to the past again. We have now reached July 2009, my best ever lucid month - 8 lucids in a month. To make that record, I had to have a lucid right on the first night of July. So let's delve into it.

      Sex-filled Lucid with Bananas and Hairy-assed Fat Dudes <- My best headline so far.
      Date: July 1st
      Lucid: Yes
      Method: DILD

      My phone was calling people on it's own. It was possessed. It called to some unknown guy and then other unknown voice insulted the one who answered. Answerer got really upset for being called and insulted in the middle of the night. I was trying to explain that it wasn't me and that some unknown source is controlling my phone. I doubt he bought it.

      I was panicking. I tried to shut it down. It restarted on it's own. I tried removing the battery. It didn't work. I was really getting desperate, until all the sudden I came to my senses. "Wait a minute... This kind of thing can't happen... I must be dreaming."

      After the nose test confirmed that I was dreaming, and me being a raging dick, the logical conclusion was that I'd proceed to having some hot lucid sex. Unfortunately it wasn't that hot, in fact it didn't feel like anything. So after a quickie I decided that I'd try to do the challenge that was in effect in our forum. It was still the same as my last lucid - try to ask some kind of life advice, wisdom etc. from one of our real life buddies. So I decided to again get my hands to my buddy Niko.

      Again I used passive control and just presumed that he would for some reason be in the room next to our shower - he indeed was. What's this thing with Niko and our shower? Why it seemed that I always found him near there? What was he doing there? Well, all I know is that he had a rake on his hands, so I guess he was raking the leaves... inside the house. Okay, it doesn't make any sense.

      Niko's dream self was pretty annoying, far more annoying than his real self. When I started talking to him, he said jokingly that he could hit me in the head with that rake. I just calmly answered "you might as well do that, as this is only a dream." He didn't react to that. I lead the conversation to our forum thread and to the challenge so that it was natural for me to ask the question.
      "So how you do you pick up a ton of women like you do?" I finally asked.
      "Yeah, I certainly do", He answered smugly. That was no answer. Idiot.
      "Yeah yeah, but why?!" I continued.
      "Well", Niko started and got more serious, "it depends on the location etc..."

      I guess that's true. To pick up tons of women, you gotta be near tons of women. Now that the challenge and sex were both done, I continued by simply being curious about the world around me. I tasted some bananas I ramdomly found. They tasted the usual, maybe a bit more lame than usual. Then I proceeded to have more sex. Yeah, I'm a raging dick. Some nude, hairy fat dude was wandering in the background during the act. I guess I'm fucked up. Also I started concentrating too much on the woman's breast and they turned into this mutilated mess of details as my brains kept twisting them. I needed to look away.

      Finally I woke up. Well, that had lasted pretty long anyway, I consoled myself. I was also excited to go post this into our forum. I routinely still did the nose test. Wait a minute, I'm not even awake yet! I guess that's the difference between me then and now, I now struggle doing reality tests routinely straight when I wake up.

      I wasn't sure if I'd remember the first instance with Niko, so I decided to be safe and go ask him something more. He was still there in the room next to the showers.
      "So what are you exactly doing in here?" I asked to sate my curiosity.
      "I'm cleaning", he answered.
      "Yeah, but why are you cleaning here?"
      "I'm cleaning!" He said with more force.

      Dream ended there and I woke up.
    6. Betrayals and Accused Masturbation

      by , 01-12-2012 at 04:49 PM (The Inner Workings of a Sound Addict)
      This is by far my best-recalled dream since I started over a week ago, and was definitely the most interesting (if slightly disturbing).
      ---
      11/1/12
      I am in some European country, probably Italy by the way it feels, with one of my best friends (Luke, an old rugby teammate), my dad, and my former head coach, Kiwi. [Rugby tour perhaps? My dad always used to love coming along and pioneering the drinking games]
      The four of us are looking around some sort of touristy ornament shop when another close friend/teammate, Ant, and Luke's dad (also a former coach) walked in. Despite us all being friends, no one says hello to either of them (I didn't recognise them initially) and the atmosphere gets a bit tense.
      Luke's dad asks why none of us didn't greet them before Ant looks at Luke with tears in his eyes. I knew instantly that Luke and betrayed him in some way, presumably over a girl. [Incidentally, earlier that waking day the three of us were commenting on a picture of the two of them, in which Ant's goofy grin ruins Luke's serious stare]
      We all leave the shop and I discuss the situation with Kiwi as we walk through some ancient-looking ruins.

      Later, I'm back in a hotel with my mum, dad and sister, as well as my old head of sixth form from school (who had morphed from Kiwi). A hotel staff member explains to my dad about damage to a note in the cupboard under my bed. He gets the note out and it's two pieces of crumpled lined paper, with what I explain are my shopping lists and one 'to do' list. [I had recently made both those lists at uni, and the bed resembled that of my uni room]
      Strangely, my dad tells me not to worry about the 'rerun thing', which makes no sense but I know he's referring to the Ant and Luke situation (not that this makes it any more understandable) and asks me how much he should pay the hotel for the damage to this note. I realise everyone thinks I crumpled it by masturbating on the bed, of which I'm 100% innocent, but I'm too embarrassed to mention it, especially in front of my sister. Instead, I go along with it and tell him to pay £100.

      Updated 03-31-2012 at 07:38 PM by 52203

      Categories
      non-lucid , memorable
    7. The Big One...

      by , 01-12-2012 at 02:03 PM (My brain and I)
      dream : comments : lucid

      5th of May, 2011


      This is one of the more memorable dreams I've ever had, and is a pretty intimate one for me.



      I flew into New York with Jono, Colin and Nooks. We dropped from the sky into the ocean and swam ashore- it was raining and a guy in a car sped past us on the road as we emerged.

      Our hotel was a strange, small building across and in the water and you had to wade to it- the ocean was apparently only shin deep. When we arrived we walked up the stairs that lead out of the water and into our separate rooms. The guys wanted to do something but I took ages to get changed into board shorts.
      When I finally changed, I asked where Jono was and Colin said that he was at work as a DJ and had been living in New York for several months. Fair enough.
      We strolled into the city and came into a kind of piazza area surrounded by small stalls and bordered on all sides by large, red brick buildings. I set fire to some paper and blew up a stall. People thought it was awesome. I looked up the cobbled road where a bunch of 70’s styled women crashed their giant limo- front and back. I came across Jono and wanted him to come with us to party but he said he hadn’t been for a run yet. At that point I saw some shady looking characters lurking around and Jono put on a police hat and ran after them. I told Nooks and Colin and they freaked out. As we chased Jono more gangsters came so I ducked into a little trinket store but the gangsters followed me in and ordered everyone onto the ground.

      They shot me in the head as well as everyone else.
      I survived and pretended to be dead. They shot me several times more and then spoke about their plans while I was trying to be as still as possible and not breathe.
      After a while they left but I continued pretending.

      I kept that up for hours or days as people passed by. Even in my dream it felt like a really, really long time. Eventually some guys put me on a cart and took me into a house. Two of them went upstairs so I decided to scare the other guy by ‘coming back to life’. When the other two came down, I told them what had happened and concluded that I must be immortal.
      As we talked, the gangsters ran past and the guys shut the door as quickly as they could, but that drew the baddies’ attention. They stormed in and I pretended to be dead again.
      Head gangster Andy Garcia (what?) sat down and checked me. I tried and tried to hold my breath but eventually exhaled.
      As I did I woke up...

      ...in the same room?

      Huh?
      The guys, minus the gangsters were there and told me I was safer in this existence and “what’s awake really mean, anyway?” They said I should just make the most of my day, even if it was a dream. Okay!
      I went upstairs and was back in our hotel room from before.
      I remembered that I wanted to find out what music was like in dreams, so after checking myself out in the mirror, I found a toilet/glowing stereo thing. It was actually really awesome looking and totally feasible.
      The sound was dodgy when I tried to get it to work and wouldn’t play clearly. After fiddling with it for ages I finally got it to play:
      “Never gonna give you up, never gonna let you dooooown...”

      (o_O)

      Damn you subconscious! Rickrolled by my own mind.
      Touché sir.


      I went back to the mirror and decided to jump through it, which I did. I became the reflection. I jumped off the balcony and onto the back of one of those canvas covered trucks. It was a weird brick city and the brick road was watery and cracked. I checked my hands and everything was stable so I hopped off the truck, looked around, then did a flip and flew into the air. I wanted to fly to the planets, but it was like the never-ending staircase from Mario 64; every time I looked back, I hadn’t gone any higher.

      Eventually I gave up and dived headfirst like a bullet into the ground, crashing through into an underground chasm. It was really pretty and glowy- fluorescing rocks and water. I walked through the shaft and came across a face on a rock made of mossy orange fungus stuff.
      It spoke in a scary, profound tone.
      I took it to be my true subconscious and he asked me what kind of person avoids their dreams- that I should be doing what I’ve wanted to do since I was three and was mad for not doing more acting. It gave me some deep insights and words of wisdom before I lost lucidity and woke up.


      This dream was truly immense in both scale and content. It provided me with insight, joy, laughs and full-on action. It let me do some dream experiments and put me in touch with myself more than any other dream I can recall having. I woke up deeply moved and immediately wrote down as much as I could remember.

      Updated 01-16-2012 at 01:04 AM by 52392

      Categories
      lucid , memorable
    8. The Awesome Street...

      by , 01-12-2012 at 01:35 PM (My brain and I)
      29th of April, 2011

      On a road trip with Nooks somewhere in the US.
      Stopped and got out into a curious little plaza* adjacent to a road. It was a wonderful, sunny day.
      We went for a stroll around the neighbourhood and noticed that all the houses were really odd. All totally unique and situated among each other unlike anything I’ve ever encountered in the dream or waking life. Some had ramparts, others were really thin and windy, lots were colourful. It was kind of Suess-ish in a more ‘normal’ way. I mentioned that it would be a really awesome place to go trick-or-treating.
      Anyway, we found ourselves walking in a roughly hewn underground tunnel with dingy electric lights hanging from the roof. At some point during our walk I realised it was a dream and we exited the tunnel into a lovely green, bright forest. We went jumping around. Nooks was sitting in the grass playing an instrument– guitar or violin. I lay down in the grass and tried to shrink myself just for fun. It kind of worked but was a bit of a struggle so instead I climbed a tree to see the cool houses again but woke up.

      Lay still in bed trying to get back to sleep.

      Found myself climbing (literally, up the cabinets and stuff) in a kitchen and was still lucid. I ran down the hallway at speed and vaulted without a second thought over the balcony, falling at speed and crushing my car all awesome superhero style. I jogged down the street and decided to see my special door** again.
      As I approached it, I woke up.


      *Why am I always dreaming of plazas?

      **See the DJ Entry "The First Recorded Lucid"

      Updated 01-13-2012 at 10:16 AM by 52392

      Categories
      lucid , memorable
    9. The Breath Test...

      by , 01-12-2012 at 11:05 AM (My brain and I)
      21st of April, 2011

      Standing in a kitchen with Daniel. I began discussing with him about what we’d do if it was a dream. Eventually he just said “it is!”, so I did a hand check and even though they looked reasonably normal, concluded that
      it was a dream.
      Without really doing much else, I remembered I wanted to do the Breath test.*
      I took a big breath (slightly larger than usual) and began to realise I could feel my true self breathing.

      I woke up after feeling my hands in my bed.

      *This is an idea I had regarding whether or not your breathing correlates between the sleeping and waking self. After doing it I discovered it’s actually a pretty well known experiment, similar to how the eyes of a dreamer in the real world mimic the movements of the sleeping self.
      Even though I didn’t break any new ground, I’m pretty stoked I can be coming up with experiments that professionals think of!
    10. The Sci-Fi One...

      by , 01-12-2012 at 09:35 AM (My brain and I)

      30th of October, 2010

      Humans had settled on Titan and turned it into a holiday destination. I'm not sure it was actually Titan, but that's what we called it and it was some distant moon, so we'll pretend.
      We travelled there on this humungous mother ship and when we got off I just lay down and looked at the sky and yelled in utter joy.

      This place was spectacular. Amazing. Totally alien yet utterly beautiful.
      There were enormous super-highways high in the sky, which in itself was breathtaking; a hazy yellowish green with a constant red tinge. The selling point was the fact that this was a moon, and as such an enormous potion of the sky was filled with a planet that looked a lot like Earth.
      I played around on Titan for a while, running through the beautifully architectured streets and incorporated rivers of shimmering liquid. All around people were driving strange automobiles and most tourists were walking around in just as much awe as myself. I played hide and seek with some locals.

      -----

      I sold my car and while on a train saw a huge (I’m noticing while writing this that a lot of things in my dreams are described as “huge”- I need a new adjective) alien ship in the sky and started shouting about it in panic. We turned a corner and saw a while city was under attack. In the city, police were trying to keep order but people were mutating into these fierce alien monsters. I got chased by mutants who were tearing people apart left right and centre before running back to the place where I sold my car- a strange workshop with a big lift in the centre. I went down the lift into a bunker that was built into the side of a mountain, kind of like those pillboxes that machine gunners sat in during WWI, except several hundred meters off the ground. There I listened to the radio and heard about a resistance group.
      While keeping guard with a bunch of new additions to the group, a helicopter came. We weren’t sure what it was so we hid. My friend threw a grenade at them before we realised they were the good guys. I got in this giant plasma gun and started firing into the valley. The alien ships came and caused the cliff to collapse so we jumped into these mech things and strode around tearing shit up.

      It gets a bit hazy after that, except for the final revelation: The aliens turned out to be black people.


    11. Fear of Waking Up

      by , 01-12-2012 at 09:19 AM
      I've recently begun attempting to lucid dream and I've yet to succeed for more than a few seconds but my dream recall has been steadily improving. For my entire life I've struggled to get out of bed in the morning and recently this struggle has been playing itself out in the form of false awakenings.

      A couple weeks ago I awoke in my girlfriends bed, despite being a couple hundred miles away, to the sound of my alarm clock. It didn't strike me as odd that my girlfriend was nowhere to be found and I rolled over to hit the snooze button... nothing happened. Next I tried turning off the alarm completely and still the alarm kept going off. Frustrated and confused I ripped the plug out of the wall to shut the thing up so I could go back to bed in peace but even that didn't work. Furious I took the alarm clock and smashed it on the ground breaking it into as many pieces as possible... but somehow the alarm continued to go off. I got so frustrated I gave up my attempt at going back to sleep and haunted by my alarm I grabbed some clothes and went into town to grab a cup of coffee. The entire walk my alarm still haunted me. My dream began to get a little more fuzzy as I continued on and for some reason began talking to a police office for a reason which I can't recall. The last thing I remember is realizing that I must be dreaming and decided to fly away from the sound of the alarm. Suddenly I (actually) woke up to the sound of my alarm, looked at my clock, and realized that I had just slept through my alarm going off for 20 minutes.

      This afternoon I took a nap before going to work and once again had a false awakening. I was woken up by the sound of my garage door opening and my dad coming home from work early. He came in to my room and offered me a ride to work since I had to be there in 15 minutes (not enough time to walk) but when I went to respond my throat tightened up and I lost my voice. I then almost vomited (I have acid reflux so stomach pain in the morning is common) and developed an excruciating headache (also common for me in mornings for a reason I'm not sure of). I felt horrible and laid there in bed for a while contemplating how I could miss work but decided since it would be my last shift for a couple months I could get away with skipping it. I then somehow ended up in a local coffee shop waiting for my coffee to come out of a tube but the cups of coffee had gotten stuck (I really don't understand how in the hell my cup of coffee was coming out of a tube). I then realized I was actually at work, working at the coffee shop, and it was my job to fix the tube. They then made me sweep because I couldn't fix it. I then (actually) woke up, freaked out because I thought I had overslept, and looked at my clock to realize I had over an hour till I had to be at work. Though I was a little disappointed my dad hadn't actually come home which meant I had to walk to work.
    12. The Fourth Dimension...

      by , 01-12-2012 at 09:14 AM (My brain and I)
      4th of September, 2010

      At Sally's house. She had a pet seal on the roof but it fell off and got chased away by cats. I ran after it and followed it through streets until it caused a huge car crash. I came to a building and broke off the door on the way in. It was a really Eastern European/rundown, depressing sort of place where the girls that lived there were all eating this strange black and white, checkerboard cereal.

      I went upstairs and all at once found myself in an Indiana Jones style crypt where what I can only describe as 4th Dimensional lights were flickering in and out of existence while this awesome professor guy was talking about them. I watched them happily be for a while while this guy narrated what was going on in a voiceover.

      It doesn't sound cool when written, but I woke up really moved by what I'd been privelleged to see and for the rest of the day felt like I had some kind of tiny new insight into the Universe.
    13. The Future of Houses...

      by , 01-12-2012 at 09:04 AM (My brain and I)
      1st of June, 2010

      I was in the living room with my family at night time. Cups that were lying around started standing themselves up and flicking up into the air. Started getting a really strange vibe and eventually discovered it was a ghost from 100AD trying to communicate with us.

      -----


      Went flying in a helicopter over a sparsely treed mountain but one of the landing struts hit a tree and ripped a giant hole in the bottom. We rolled out and down the hill.

      -----

      On a drive with Nooks. We went through this strange suburb and I authoritatively turned to her and declared that "I've just seen the future of houses."
      In hindsight they were pretty ordinary.

      We stopped the car and walked into one of the houses and into the bathroom where we fooled around for a bit. Nooks noticed some guys through the window loitering outside and said that they were wrapping our car in barbed wire. I ran outside and started yelling at them then got a pitchfork (!) from the boot of the car.
      A massive fight broke out.
      Eventually one of the guys ran to some house to get backup so I took off.
      Sprinted through gardens and over fences and up hills for what seemed like an eternity and ended up near a backyard pool. This Maori guy came up with a giant dog but we talked it out and everything was okay.
      He said he dealt MDMA and the dream ended with an awkward "oh... ...can I have some?"

      Updated 01-20-2012 at 12:13 AM by 52392

      Categories
      non-lucid , memorable , dream fragment
    14. The Beginning...

      by , 01-12-2012 at 08:31 AM (My brain and I)
      Howdy!

      Okay, so as I haven't kept an online dream journal and I'm new here, I figure I may as well archive my most memorable dreams, as a way of settling in and letting you guys get to know me a bit. Here I'll post some of the more standout dreams from my book over the past few years until now; I have a terrible habit of writing them down for a couple of weeks and then stopping for months.

      I've vowed this year to write down as many as I can, so with any luck this will be an almost daily updated little space.

      I hope you enjoy this insight into the weird workings of my mind and possibly even gain a little bit of understanding of your own! I'd love to hear from you.

      So.
      Without further ado;


      6th April, 2010

      We were playing the weirdest 'game' ever - it basically involved standing on this abusive, glowing red square and sliding around on it while it made you feel uncomfortable. After we succeeded we asked an elderly woman if it was, in fact, possible to get to Hong Kong. She said yes.

      Attempting to get there (I imagine, as I have no sense as to how we ended up where we did) we found ourselves on a small island. It was extremely polluted and you couldn't see anything beyond the waves. About eight others were there and we were all looking at the stars and searching for magic mushrooms.*
      We went up and down hills picking shrooms, but only ate these little orange squishy things.

      After that we tried to sleep on the beach and wait for the sunrise. Which never came.

      Once the tide rose, hundreds of people were suddenly there also mushroom hunting. The Dude, from The Big Lebowski, led us around for a while under these awesome old piers and caves and through water and stuff.



      *I don't do, nor have I ever done magic mushrooms but they often feature in my dreams and are always extremely "magical" in their appearance (flourescing, swirly etc.)
      I love dreaming about them!

      Updated 01-12-2012 at 11:07 AM by 52392

      Categories
      non-lucid , memorable
    15. Gonna be a good night

      by , 01-12-2012 at 03:08 AM (Tales from the sun chaser.)
      I'm at a bar/small supermarket in the beer section looking for the best thing to buy with the lowest price. Some girl approaches me and starts playfully flirting. She's really touchy feely and this chick kinda reminds me of Fergie on a good day. She tells me that I don't have spend any money on beer, and her friends could hook me up. No not only was she a good mind reader...she was hot. There was a table nearby that we went to, and everyone was pregaming. I ordered like three shots and a beer. The shots were vodka and grenadine, and they tasted like Kool-aid. The waitress immediately asks me if I want my next shot, and my spider-senses go off. Might get fucked up too quick...or maybe this shot is just weak...fuck. I decided to drink the next one, and the Fergie chick sat in my lap. The table we're sitting at reminds me of an outdoor picnic table and it's covered with a cheap plastic. The atmosphere has a very down to earth care free environment to it.

      We all start up a conversation, and cards becomes the main topic. I outright tell them that I'm no good, but I'm willing to play a few hands. In my mind, I think I can beat everyone, but I'm not sure how my money is looking. I know the guy is bluffing about how bad he is. He wouldn't have bought it up in the first place if it was. It seems like we may be going heads up...so not only will money be on the line, I don't want to look bad in front of this girl. She reminds me to relax and just have fun and I oblige. RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING

      Fucking phone wakes up in RL.......ugh.